Tanya Hale 00:00 

Hey there, welcome to Intentional Living with Tanya Hale. This is episode number 313, "Divorce is Not the End, part two," with my sweet husband, Sione. Welcome to your place for finding greater happiness through intentional growth, because we don't just fall into the life of our dreams...we choose to create it. This is Tanya Hale and I'm your host for Intentional Living. 

Tanya Hale 00:25 

Alright, hey there, welcome to the podcast today. As always, so happy to have you here, my friends. And I am happy to be here. I'm always really grateful to be able to share content with you that I hope is going to help create a greater vision for your life, greater understanding of your life, and of the lives of the people that you love, and help you create relationships that really are significant and that matter to you. And that's just what I love to do. I love to be able to help you in your journey, in your current relationships, help you understand maybe relationships from the past. I know this work has helped me so much to process through my previous divorce and that relationship and I hope that it does the same for you. 

Tanya Hale 01:10 

So anyway, last week we did "Divorce is Not the End, part one," with my great friend Wendy. You listened to that hopefully. And this week we're doing "Divorce is Not the End, part two," with Sione. He's here again. Hey, babe. 

Sione 01:24 

Hey, everyone. 

Tanya Hale 01:27 

I love it when he joins me. This is always just fun for us to kind of talk about the direction we want to go and what we want to do and I thought it would just be really good to get even a different perspective about how Divorce is Not the End. I know that over the years that I've been doing this podcast, I've shared so much about how my life is in a better place and that the divorce was part of that journey for me. It was part of my process and how I am today, where I am, partially because of that. That's part of who I am and part of what created who I am and what I do. And I think that that's the case for everybody. But everybody's story is going to be different, so I loved getting to share Wendy's story with you last week. And I thought even a male perspective, and just a different person's perspective, on how divorce is not the end, how it actually is the beginning of something totally different, I thought that this would be a really great thing. So I talked to Sione and he's like "sure, I'd be happy to do that," kind of in that tone of voice, right? 

Sione 02:28 

Pretty close, yeah. But I also do think that it is different from a male perspective, especially within the culture of The Church of Jesus Christ the Latter-day Saints. So yeah, I think that not only are each individual different but I really think the cultural expectations are different based on your sex. 

Tanya Hale 02:52 

Yeah I think so too. So let's go ahead and start. Will you give us just kind of a brief overview of your marriage, well, not like specifics, we don't want to go there, but when you knew that divorce was possibly on the table and how you dealt with that aspect, because I think that for a lot of us, that's the biggest piece, is actually realizing that, "oh, maybe divorce is an option." 

Sione 03:26 

Yeah, for us, so I was married for 29 years and we had done therapy for, I think I added it up once, either individually or as a couple for 13 of those 29 years. There's just always something that wasn't quite right, that just didn't feel complete. And so we'd gone to a lot of therapy to kind of figure all that stuff out. And that work had allowed us to identify a few things that were part of those, what John Gottman calls the 74% or whatever it is that are never going to be resolved. 

Tanya Hale 04:09 

69%. 

Sione 04:09 

69% that are never going to be resolved in a marriage. And can we even come to a working place on those things? And it turns out it was not possible. So we worked really hard and tried to fix a lot of things. And I think we did a lot of good work together, but in the end, it wasn't enough to meet the needs that both of us had. 

Tanya Hale 04:37 

So when was this time? Was it a moment or was it just kind of a gradual sunrise expectation that when you realized that, "oh, I think divorce is the course that we're going to take here"? 

Sione 04:54 

So I had done some of my own therapy. And I was working with my personal therapist as well as with our couples therapist and had kind of realized that there was never going to be able to meet each other's needs. Like we both were pretty on opposite ends of the spectrum of what we thought we needed. So I had talked with my ex-wife and we had decided, yep, it's just time to get divorced. We've been working really hard on this for nine years. Nothing was changing, or I shouldn't say nothing was changing, but we weren't moving closer together and we weren't resolving anything. And if anything, we were just clarifying where the differences were and really able to isolate those out. So the challenge then at that point was I talked to my therapist and said, "um, what should we, you know, how should we tell the kids that we're getting divorced?" Because at that point, we still had two kids living at home. 

Sione 06:14 

And that's when the therapist said, "well, will you try one more therapist?" One of her colleagues was a marriage and family therapist and was highly, I don't know what the word to say, but was known for being able to take couples who are on the edge of divorce and bring them back. And so we did three more years of therapy with her. But the first inkling was when my ex-wife and I were like, "look, this is just never going to work out. We have too many things that are not compatible with each other." But then when we had the opportunity to do therapy again, we both took that opportunity because we both really wanted to do everything we possibly could to stay married. But also respecting ourselves as to what kind of needs that we had and what desires we had to get out of the relationship to each other. 

Tanya Hale 07:16 

Yeah. So what do you think were some of the things that you had to work through? 

Sione 07:23 

Yeah. So my biggest issue my entire life actually was just insecurity. I didn't know... I was really, really afraid of failure. And so as a result of that, I did really well in school. I worked really hard at that. And in order to be successful, I had to have a successful career. So that's where medical school went in, but I was still insecure about my ability to succeed. So I also got a PhD 'cause that would guarantee me a career of some sort. So a lot of insecurities in my decision-making in life. Because of this fear of failure, I really didn't want to fail. But that also then led me to be super controlling because if I could control the situation, then I could control whether I failed or not. And if I can control you, I could control whether I failed or not. It turns out that's not really how human beings work at all. But I lived with that fantasy that if I could just control the situation and control everybody in the situation, then we would always have success. I still think I have a little bit of that in me sometimes. And sometimes it serves me well in my work, for sure. Being able to step in and take control in an emergency situation is really useful. And I get rewarded really well for that. It just doesn't work so well in relationships with people. 

Tanya Hale 08:49 

Right. 

Sione 08:50 

So I was super afraid of what are...you know, people at church are gonna see me as a failure in marriage because, I don't know about your experience, but I heard a lot growing up and even as an adult that if you know divorce was a sign of failure, that you'd given up, that if you just had worked harder, done something differently than you wouldn't have gotten divorced. And so I was afraid of that. I was afraid, would people look at me and say "I'll bet he cheated on her," you know, there's a lot of that stigma of "oh, there must have been some infidelity in the relationship." And I was afraid that people would judge me as a failure or would judge me and say "they're not saying it, but somebody cheated on somebody, and statistically it's probably him." 

Sione 09:41 

So I was I afraid of that. I was afraid of how the kids would see me as a failure. There's a lot of, I think, social stigma with divorced dads and their kids. I think there's a lot of hard relationships out there between divorced dads and children that I was worried about. I also was worried about how are family vacations gonna work now that their mom won't be in the picture. Will the kids still want to go to the same family places we'd been going to for the last 29 years or would they now say "nah, I'm really not interested in doing that with you anymore." So I was afraid of that and I think also a lot of it was I was just afraid of, well I guess there's two more big things. I was afraid of being lonely. Really afraid of being lonely. And then the final thing I was worried about, I think, was money. Like, divorce is expensive. It costs a lot of money to get divorced and It is more expensive to run two households than one. So having to split the money that we had accumulated together was also a bit painful for me. So I was afraid of how that was would look. So I had a lot of fears, it turns out, a lot of fears and insecurities that I thought was so, you know, "my life is going to end now because of all these things." 

Tanya Hale 11:03 

Yeah. And I don't think all those fears are unfounded and I don't think they're unusual at all. I think they're absolutely normal to have a lot of that. I know that as I was working through my process, I knew that divorce was absolutely on the table, most likely going to happen. And it still took me a couple of years. Partially, you know, I feel like I waited until I felt God say "it's time and it's okay." But during that time, I had a lot of stuff to work out about what would it mean that I would have the label of a "divorced woman," especially in the church. And how would people look at me and what would that mean? And what would it mean to be single for possibly the rest of my life? You know, I didn't have any interest in dating when I first got divorced. And I just think there's a lot of that that we all have to work through, a lot of fears for sure. 

Sione 11:59 

Yeah. And I really felt like, and I know this is just my thinking about it, but I really felt like I had a scarlet D every time I went to church, you know, a big "divorce A" on my shirt. And I think also that people really felt like they had to pick a side or like somebody had to have been at fault and not that just the relationship had ended. Like it was, it had fulfilled the course of its on the major of its course on earth and the measure of its creation, whatever phrase you want to use. And it was time to move on from that. And that was, that was really hard to think about how people in the church were going to view that and that colored how I viewed other people in the church. You know, some innocent person who looked at me and then looked away, the week before I would have thought nothing of it. And then the week after I'm like, "Oh yeah, they did that because now I'm divorced." And so I had a lot of my own thoughts about other people's behaviors. 

Tanya Hale 13:03 

Yeah. Which I think is pretty normal as well. Right. 

Sione 13:07 

I only know my experience, but yes, I imagine it's probably pretty normal. It gave me a lot of empathy though, for other people who were going through divorce or who I now know have been through a divorce. And it also gave me a lot of guilt for how I had judged others who were getting divorced before I was divorced. 

Tanya Hale 13:29 

Yeah. I think that's one of the brilliant things about going through tough things though, is that it gives us this space of compassion for people that we didn't have before, who have gone through the same thing. 

Sione 13:40 

Yeah. Yeah. And it was, I mean I leaned heavily on other people who had been through divorce as well. So hopefully I can be someone others can lean on as well. 

Tanya Hale 13:51 

So a lot of groundwork that many of us who get divorced have to lay in order to really make that final decision and move on it and be okay with it, I know everybody's story is different. Some people don't have a choice, you know, like some people find out something horrible has been happening in their marriage and it's a shock and, you know, three months later they're divorced. 

Sione 14:13 

Yeah. Or the other person comes out and says, look, I don't want to be married to you anymore. Sign here, sign here, sign here. And they're like, "I thought everything was fine. What's going on?" 

Tanya Hale 14:21 

And it just happens really quick for some people and you and I both had time to kind of process that. And so I feel that for me, by the time my divorce was final, I had already gone through a lot of the grieving process that is necessary. So by the time, you know, the paperwork was finished and it was final, I felt like I could move forward and not still be hung up in my divorce. 

Sione 14:47 

No doubt that has to happen. You're grieving the end of this relationship, even if it was a toxic relationship or even if you found out some things that your spouse was doing that made it impossible for you to continue together. There's still going to be that grieving. And I remember laying in bed and my ex was asleep next to me and just uncontrollable sobbing as I was staring up at the ceiling in, you know, one, two o'clock in the morning, just my whole body racking with sobs. And just because I was mourning the loss of this relationship that we had invested so much time and energy into and nothing had come easy for us in our relationship. And so we had worked very hard for every little bit of emotional connection that we had. 

Tanya Hale 15:42 

And I think we don't just grieve the past. I think we also grieve the future. You know, we have these ideas and these dreams of growing old together and of what it's going to look like and vacations with the kids and grandkids coming over. I think, you know, we just, we have this future as well that we have to give ourselves a space to grieve also. 

Sione 16:04 

Right. Yeah. Nana and Pops were going to be the world's greatest grandparents together and take the grandkids, not the kids, they can do their own stuff, but take the grandkids all over the world and, you know, take them to the amusement parks and take them camping and take them boating and all that stuff. We were going to be the world's most awesome grandparents together. And yeah, you lose that for sure. 

Tanya Hale 16:33 

And now you get to be the world's most awesome grandparents, but not together, right? 

Sione 16:37 

Well, I get to do, I get to do it together with you, which is just awesome. 

Tanya Hale 16:41 

But there's this space of grieving, even the dreams that we have that we have to let go of what's going on. So, what were some of the first indications that you started to receive? Understanding that, oh, maybe there is something beyond this that makes divorce not the end, that actually that there's something else. 

Sione 17:04 

Yeah, so maybe some folks out there listening know that I love to run, I'm addicted to it, or I'm a chronic runner, what is it, a habitual runner, and I have a running coach who sends me messages that tells me every day which workout, what running plan I'm supposed to do, and I called him up and said, "hey, things are changing a little bit, I'm getting divorced," and he said, "oh, I'm divorced too." And I said, "you are?" Because I knew he had a wife, and he says, "yeah, I mean, I've been married again for," and then now I don't remember whether it was eight years or 10 years or something like that. He said, "but yeah, I got divorced a while ago." And and so he told me his divorce story, which was that his wife came to him and said, "I don't want to be married to you anymore." And he was just totally blindsided by it. But he had been through divorce. And so I said, "well, what would you tell yourself 10 years ago, knowing what you know now, what advice would you have given yourself 10 years ago, seeing what you can see now at the other end of this tunnel?" And he said, "I would tell myself that it's going to be okay. And that it's actually going to be better than it was before. You just have to go through this hard time. But on the other end, it's going to be better." 

Sione 18:32 

And I really clung to that little bit of advice every time it got super hard, or every time I was questioning what was going to happen or what the next steps were going to be. I just always had that in my head. "It's going to be better. It's going to be better. It's going to be better." And I also had the perspective of God knows who I am. I have been praying and fasting about this decision for years. And I really felt a calm and peace that it was that the relationship had run its course. And so I really felt that God loved both of us, and that He had plans for both of us, and that I just needed to keep going so that I could find  what His plan was for me. And so those are the kind of the two things that I clung to that helped me figure that out. 

Sione 19:27 

The second thing was is once we had signed the divorce papers, I started looking to see who's single and available to date. And I signed up for several of the well-known dating apps. And you know, you and I met on eHarmony, which is amazing. There's no financial interest for us in eHarmony. We don't get paid to say that. But that just opened up a whole new arena to me that, holy cow, there's a lot of single and divorced people out there who also want relationships. I just need to find who my person is. And I also have my little sister who's just a couple of years younger than me, not even two years younger than me, she and I started talking a lot. She'd been through a divorce as well. And she also really helped me like see what the potential possibilities were and she just would tell me a lot about how much better her life was now than it was before. And that now I had this opportunity to completely change the trajectory of my life from where I was going to where I really wanted to be. 

Tanya Hale 20:44 

Very good. And so when did you start to think then that, "oh, this is actually the beginning of a better life?" When did you really start to know it and not just think that it might be the beginning, but when did that shift happen for you? 

Sione 21:06 

Probably when I started dating and I could start to look at the other person and say, "yeah, you're just not my person. Like I had this beginning that I envisioned in my head and it's different than your vision of what your life is going forward. So this isn't going to work out." And that's when I really started to see, "okay, this is a really huge opportunity. Don't screw it up. Don't fail at this new opportunity to really change the direction of your life." So I think that's really when it kind of hit me that I get to be super, super picky about who I'm going to date and who I want to spend the rest of my life with. 

Tanya Hale 21:54 

So let me kind of circle background a little bit. You talked about all of these insecurities that you had for a lot of years, creating a lot of fear. How did you tackle those? And how did that play into you moving forward after your divorce? 

Sione 22:09 

I think I tackled a lot of them before the divorce. So when I had my own therapist, and after the first, I don't know what you want to call it, the first time deciding we were going to get divorced, which was three years before we actually did get divorced thee or four years, four years, I guess it was, I kept seeing my own personal therapist and she was a mindfulness expert. That was her approach to mental health and therapy. And so it was really useful for me to continue to work with that mindfulness coach and kind of get to the root of why do I feel like failure is such a big deal to me and why do I see divorce as a failure and not as just the relationship has now run its course and it's time to move forward so that I can continue to grow and she can continue to grow. And how we were both stopping each other from moving into a space of growth and progression. And so that was therapy that I did, that I continued to do, that really helped me reframe "what is failure" and see failure as the lack of progress and not as having not accomplished something. 

Sione 23:36 

So to use the example that, I don't think you're unique in using this example, but a child learning to walk. They don't see every time as a failure. They see the chance to progress and get better at walking, in using that as growth and progress. And that's success, even if that means they fell down a lot. And so me seeing the events in my life, not as failures, but as opportunities to learn and opportunity to figure out, "okay, why has God put me in this situation? And what can I learn from that that's gonna make me a better person?" And so reframing all of those "failures" as learning opportunities and any future "failures" weren't actually failures, they were just opportunities to learn and become better myself helped me to change my mindset about all of that going on. 

Sione 24:38 

And then I didn't need to control anybody anymore because they weren't failing and I wasn't failing. We were all just learning together. And when that happened, I just really lost the desire to try and control the situation or be passive aggressive because I was really good at that too, which is all part of control, is being passive aggressive. 

Tanya Hale 24:58 

So I love the idea, I think when we can look at our divorces, or even look at the divorces of the people around us, if that's not a particular challenge that you have as a listener, I think when we can see it as, listen, this is just a stepping stone. This  is just part of my learning journey. It may not be a part of everybody's and rather than making it a moral failing of people, which I think happened in the world and I think within a religious community, I think divorce has been seen as a moral failure for a lot of years. But I think as we move it out of that and see it more as a learning opportunity, I love that you brought that up, an opportunity to learn and grow. 

Tanya Hale 25:46 

I know that after my divorce, I had gone through the grieving process before, but my greatest learning, I know you said yours came in the counseling that you had before, mine came afterwards as I really started to understand, oh, oh, like now I see this dysfunctional part of relationships and how I engaged in that and how I exploited that and how I really was hurtful and harmful in ways that I had never seen before. And when I could start seeing that and realizing how out of alignment that was with, honestly, with the person that I thought that I was being, but I wasn't being, then I could start cleaning it up. And I think that that, for me, was a point where I just started to go, "oh, now I can figure out how to create a different kind of relationship because now I see what I did in the last one that was so hurtful and destructive." 

Sione 26:49 

Yeah, I think it's important to see what your 100% that you brought into the divorce was. I brought in a lot of insecurities and fear of failure. That didn't happen the day I got married. That all happened as a child, and I brought that into the marriage. And then with those insecurities and fears, I adapted through control and passive aggressive behaviors, which then modified how she responded to me, which then modified how I responded to her, and just built this dysfunctional pattern that if I didn't want to have that same thing happen again, I needed to change that. And that's really what therapy did for me was help me to see how those behaviors resulted in someone else's responses, which then changed my responses. And there was really no way to change any of that without looking at why I was behaving that way to begin with. Where did those actions come from? What thoughts were leading to those actions? And how can I change those thoughts? So yeah, I think that's all critical stuff. 

Sione 28:06 

You know, it's interesting. I don't think we can disappoint God because disappointment is where the expected outcome is different than the actual outcome. But God knew the day I got married that I was getting divorced 29 years later. That was no shocker to Him that it was happening. It was only a shocker to me that it was happening and maybe my ex-wife too. But either way, He was never surprised or disappointed in either one of us. And so once I kind of wrapped my brain around that, then it was easier for me to go, okay, this earth is here for us to learn and have this human experience and really learn and grow and progress. So how can I take this really, what I would see is a tragic human experience of 29 year marriage ending, and turn that into a learning and a growth opportunity for me. And I didn't know how to do that. I needed a therapist to help me with that. And, you know, talking with you and having, you know, been married to you now for over two years, we continue to talk about how we can learn and grow from our previous life experiences and what we bring into our relationship from those previous life experiences. And some of them are great and some of them need a little work. 

Tanya Hale 29:31 

Yeah. I think you and I are very good at really trying to identify dysfunctional patterns of behavior that exist from before we knew each other. And how did we learn to respond and why? And digging a little bit deeper into finding the insecurities underneath that, the false beliefs behind these behaviors. And I think that that space of learning really has created for us a space where divorce was not the end of our journey. It was a part of our journey, but it wasn't the end, because there was there's so much more beauty available to us if we will open ourselves up to learning and seeing our own crap and cleaning it up and learning how to engage in better and healthier and more functional ways. 

Sione 30:31 

Well, and I think that also having that mindset allows us to see the other person's dysfunctions and see that as a growth opportunity. Because we're both trying to grow, we're trying to learn, we're trying to have our purposes trying to learn as much as we can from this human experience that we're going through. And so when you or I put crap on the table, so to speak, the other person doesn't get intimidated by it or threatened by it or insecure about it, we get to learn from it and say, "Oh, that's interesting that you just put that on the table. Let's talk about it," you know, because then it becomes a chance to grow and learn, which is what we're trying striving for. And I think that gives us a lot of room for grace for the other person in a safe space for them to set that stuff down, because we're seeing everything that happens to us as an opportunity to learn and to grow. 

Sione 31:35 

And life is 50-50. Nobody gets away from pain and suffering. And I don't want to be happy all the time. I want to grieve when it's appropriate to grieve. But I also don't want to be dysfunctional in my behavior about that. So I do want to continue to grow and develop and learn. 

Tanya Hale 31:56 

Yeah. Love it. Okay. Any last words of wisdom about how divorce is not the end? About how it's actually the beginning of something that could be much more beautiful and fulfilling? 

Sione 32:10 

Yeah. It's the beginning of a new course trajectory. But just as if you passively let the world happen to you without doing some planning and some "what do I want my life to look like next?" And that can involve all sorts of stuff. You know, you can say, "I don't want to be in a relationship at all for five years or 10 years," or whatever. Or "wow, I really want to jump into my next relationship, but that person needs these 50 million qualities before I'm going to date them." Like you get to pick how you want the next chapter in your life to be. And if you don't...I mean, it's the definition of insanity, right? To do the same thing a second time and expect a different outcome. And so to say, okay, I understand what I brought into this dysfunction. So now how can I change that so that in another relationship, it will be different. 

Sione 33:12 

And I know in the United States, marriage is kind of on the down. I mean, there's fewer people getting married now than ever before, but I think the number of intimate partners or sexual partners that we have, it is either staying steady or going up. And most people will have more than one partner, which means most people are in intimate relationships with other people. And how can you take what you learned from that first relationship and make that second one better? And then how can you take the information learned from that second relationship and make the third one better? And while you may only get divorced once and may only get married twice or three times or 50 times, how much are you learning from each of those experiences? 

Sione 34:00 

And then for me, it's just important to remember that just because I have this deep faith and perspective that there is a life after this one, that I can't disappoint my Creator because He already knew what was going to happen. And so my goal isn't to worry about whether God's disappointed in me or not, but is to learn what I need to learn while I'm here. And whether it's my first divorce or my 50th, what am I supposed to learn from this? And that's where we get to change that trajectory. But it has to be, I know your podcast is "Intentional Living", I don't necessarily want to use that word, but you have to be intentional about those changes that you're making and those changes in your mindset, or else the same thing will happen a second time. And if the same thing does happen a second time, that's okay. What are you going to learn from that? Like, what things did you bring in? What was your 100% that you brought to that marriage and to that divorce, that now you can identify and change so that the third time around, you are coming into it differently. Or if there isn't a third time around, like that now your new trajectory is you don't want to be in a relationship. And that's okay too. But how can you treat people differently? How can your human experience be different than the trajectory you were previously on? 

Tanya Hale 35:28 

Love it. Thank you, love. 

Sione 35:30 

You're welcome. 

Tanya Hale 35:31 

Really glad to have you here. 

Sione 35:32 

I like being here. 

Tanya Hale 35:34 

Okay. All right. That's going to do it for us today. Hope that was helpful. This is the part of growing, of growing up, right? We're not just growing older, but we're also growing up. We're becoming better people. 

Sione 35:49 

We are growing older. 

Tanya Hale 35:51 

We are growing older. We're doing it together, but we're also growing up. We're becoming better people. We are living more in alignment with really the kind of people that we ultimately want to be, and we're understanding better how to do that. I know I spent a lot of years not understanding how to do that. And now I feel like I have a pretty good handle on how to do it. Not that I always do it really great, but figuring it out. And this is the growing up process that I love so much. 

Sione 36:21 

Well, I think that was part of the discomfort I felt in my first marriage was that I was not behaving in alignment with how I wanted, how I thought I should be behaving. And now with you, I do feel like I'm behaving in alignment with how I want to behave, how I want to grow. And it's night and day difference, but without that divorce, I would have never been able to embark on this journey. I would have never been where I am now if I hadn't been able to say, "okay, that relationship ran its course. What can I learn from it? And then let's move on." 

Tanya Hale 36:58 

And I know for me in my previous marriage, I felt that misalignment and I was completely confused. I had no idea what was wrong. I just knew something was wrong. And I knew that something felt out of alignment and yet I just, I didn't see it. I didn't understand it. And you can't fix what you don't see. 

Sione 37:18 

Right. And that's where coaching helped you and where therapy helped me and our continuing to self-coach each other, self coach as well as talking with each other, I think helps us see even more of those things were like, "Oh, yeah, I didn't notice that before. Okay, let's look at it." 

Tanya Hale 37:35 

Yeah. So good stuff. Alright. If you think coaching might be a good fit for you to work one-on-one with me as a coach, I would love to chat with you. You can go to my website, tanyahale.com. There is a tab at the top that says "free consultation" and those consultations are 90 minutes long, and that's because I want to create time to also coach you on whatever topic you want to bring to the table so that you can get a really good feel for what coaching is like, how it works, how it can help to increase your understanding of who you are and how you want to be. And then we can talk about whether it's a good fit. I love coaching. Coaching has changed my life and it's changed the life of so many people that I know and that I get to work with. So if you want to give it a shot and see how it works, go there and check it out. And I guess that's going to do it for us today. Have an awesome, awesome week, and I will see you next time. Bye. 

Tanya Hale 38:36 

Thank you so much for joining me today. If you would love to receive some weekend motivation, be sure to sign up for my free "weekend win" Friday email: a short and quick message to help you have a better weekend and position yourself for a more productive week. Go to tanyahale.com to sign up and learn more about life coaching and how it can help you get to your best self ever. See ya.