Tanya Hale 00:00 

Hey there, welcome to Intentional Living with Tanya Hale. This is episode number 312, "Divorce is Not the End, Part One with Wendy Lee Johnson. Welcome to your place for finding greater happiness through intentional growth, because we don't just fall into the life of our dreams...we choose to create it. This is Tanya Hale, and I'm your host for Intentional Living. 

Tanya Hale 00:25 

Alright, hello there, my friends. Welcome to the podcast today. As always, just so happy to have you here. And I'm happy to be here as well. I love that I get to share some really, really great information with you. So today I am going to be doing a podcast called Divorce is Not the End. We're going to do a part one today, and I'm talking today with my friend Wendy Lee Johnson. She's the one who was with me last week. Wendy was married for, oh gosh, I think she said 28 years, 29 years, maybe something close to that. And she ended up getting divorced. They had nine children, and she's going to share her story about kind of just how that played out, how when you get divorced, it feels like the end. But how that end for her really ended up being the beginning. And I love her take on this. I love what she had to share. 

Tanya Hale 01:16 

So if you are not divorced, not looking at divorce, being divorced, I think this is still a really great podcast for you to listen to. Because there is so much great information here about understanding divorce better. And we all have people in our life who are divorced. And I think what she shares here doesn't apply just to divorced people. It applies to all people, whether they're getting divorced or not. 

Tanya Hale 01:47 

I think you're going to love this conversation with Wendy. She is brilliant. She is a life coach that I often turn to for help and for guidance when I need some clarity of mind and seeing my situation. And she always tells me how it is. And she doesn't play around with me and I love her and she's brilliant and I think you're going to really, really enjoy this conversation. So here we go. 

Tanya Hale 02:12 

Okay, so as promised, I have my dear friend and fellow life coach here, Wendy Lee Johnson. And she is a fellow person who has gone through divorce before. And we talk a lot, I think a lot of our relationship over the years has been this growth, because we were both divorced when we met, and learning to grow into something different. And I love your growth path. I know my listeners all have heard my growth path probably more times than they care to say. But I want them to hear some other amazing paths because I think when we get divorced, we often think that divorce is the end. And so we want to start with the idea that that really is not the end, but let's talk let's start with why it seems like it's the end when divorce happens so tell us your story, Wendy and where that started off for you. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 03:13 

Okay, so I was married for 28 years, and my divorce came as a complete surprise. We really hadn't had very many, we didn't really have arguments we had never discussed divorce. And then I was served divorce papers. So, and when you say divorce is not the end, in a lot of respects, it is the end. It's the end of life as I knew it for sure, of being married, which was pretty much all I had known. It was the end of being a stay at home mom. It was the end of doing what I thought I was going to be doing. And I thought it was the end of being loved, and all of that. And I'll tell you, I felt scared; I was very fearful. Since the divorce was a surprise I wasn't really prepared mentally for it. I hadn't had a job in 23 years. I was so fearful I would also lose my kids, which I don't know, it was just a fear that kept bubbling up. We have nine kids together, six were still living at home when the divorce happened. And I was also unnerved about the finances; I didn't know how that was going to work, how to maintain, you know, all of that. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 04:36 

So, now that I look back, the divorce was the end of a chapter, not the end of my book, just the end of a chapter. And I kind  of like the idea or the concept of turn the page. Like when something happens in your life, maybe the week doesn't go like you want, or the day, turn the page, new day, turn the page. And when I turned this page, it was a completely new chapter. So it was the end of the other chapter, and at the time that seemed tragic. It seemed like a crisis. It seemed like the worst thing that could have ever happened. But it turns out it was the actual beginning of a journey of me finding my footing as me. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 05:25 

So yeah, I think initially, I was even wildly uncomfortable when the kiddos would go visit their dad every other weekend. And I realized that my identity as a wife was really important to me. And that was over. And even my identity as a mom was super important. And so every other weekend, that identity slipped away and I wasn't a wife anymore and then sometimes wasn't a mom. And it begs the question, who am I without all these identities? And that's kind of the chapter I was starting to open up to, and it would even take a second marriage before I would truly understand the importance of believing in me and kind of finding myself not to be too cliched. So yeah, that's the start of that journey. 

Tanya Hale 06:17 

Yeah, I love all of that so much. I love this idea that it is an end of so many things. But for many of us, I think one reason divorce becomes a part of our journey is because we don't know ourselves yet. And because of that we can't bring our full selves to the table. We can't fully participate because we're showing up as this partial person: this person who doesn't know herself, doesn't love herself, doesn't have the capacity to even show up 100% honest, putting our wants and needs on the table showing up as an equal partner. And I think that that's why some of us end up in a place where divorce becomes the option, because we are in this place of not knowing ourselves. And so we don't honor ourselves, we don't bring ourselves to the table. And so then this idea that you share that it actually then becomes a beginning of this journey of healing myself in the way that my unhealed parts were kind of destructive to my previous marriage. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 07:28 

Exactly, exactly. I looked at my low level of awareness of even my own needs. And it was kind of shocking. And I know from my own point of view, as a woman, as a mother, as a wife, I just kind of put my needs roughly on the back burner. And then eventually, I didn't really check in that much and see, let's see, how am I feeling today? I wasn't doing that because I thought that was the way of it. I thought that was important. So how can I even show up as me in a relationship when I'm not that connected to myself? So when I also talk about divorce is the end, it is the end of being disconnected from me. It is the end of losing myself so strongly that I don't know what I need anymore and can't really be fulfilled in a marriage or in a relationship. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 08:31 

So that's kind of where I ended up after. And after a second marriage, it took me, I had an 18 month marriage for the second marriage and it was more difficult than my first marriage. And Pema Children has this concept that when life sends you a message, if you don't learn the message, it will send you a lesson. And if you don't learn the lesson, it will send you something more epic to like teach you. And all of this has been to teach me, to change me, to start me on this journey of "what is it that I need to learn? Why am I not understanding my own feelings?" That's when I found coaching. And that has been kind of brilliant to increase my awareness, and to learn how to feel my feelings in a word. And not kind of lose myself as much, but rather to stay connected. 

Tanya Hale 09:35 

Yeah, I would dare say my journey as well. That's been my biggest piece of the beginning of me learning to really honor me, and love me and and realize that what I have to bring to the table is just as important as what the other person has to bring to the table. And I think before, in my previous marriage, in those first couple years after, I thought that I had to take a little bit of a backseat. And maybe not a big backseat, but a little bit of a backseat. I thought I had to stand back just a little bit. And I think now I realize that yeah, I don't need to stand back at all. And I still have those tendencies sometimes that come up for me. But I'm learning how to step up more fully into this equal space of really knowing who I am, knowing my wants and needs, and honoring those wants and needs. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 10:34 

Yeah, but it takes a while though, because I think we're socialized to kind of, I was, to work hard, to shoulder to the wheel, to keep on pushing. And those all sound like amazing things. But many times I would have to disconnect for myself to do it. I know I have a lot of daughters. And they asked me, "well, how did you do it with so many kids" and whatever. And I love giving that same answer that my mother did. "Ah, I just don't think it was that hard." And I'm like, "Wendy, come on. Were  you even there?" And the answer to that is "partially," you know? So I want to, now moving forward, be there, be completely aware, when am I tired? When am I sad? When am I needing support? When do I need to cry? I mean, all of these sound like basic questions. But are you checked in with yourself enough to know the answers at any given time? And kind of the underlying factor of that is falling in love with myself, but all of myself, my parts that need a lot of help, my parts that are, you know, my shadow side, as they call it. And bringing all of that to the table to say, you know, sometimes I'm bossy. And that's kind of me so, you know, or over organized, or all this stuff and just saying who I am and saying "What do you think of that?" 

Wendy Lee Johnson 12:00 

Well, and deciding early on, I think it's brilliant for me. And I'm working on certain things, but I don't want to hide any of myself anymore. So and it's interesting as I was single for roughly 10 years of dating. That's a long time to go out on dates. And initially I would almost always pass out a survey card, a theoretical one, to the guy I was on the date with. It's like "what do you think of me?" And we're all trying to put on our best act and all of that. And then eventually I was able to get to the point where I didn't pass out survey cards anymore. I would go into a date thinking to myself "I love me. Nothing is gonna change. If he likes me, great. If I like him, great. If we don't, great." That's what dating is all about. It's kind of an algorithm. What if it took a hundred dates and I'll just get going on 100 dates. And It probably took 75 dates in till I figured out "oh wait, sounds crazy, but dating is partially dating me." I go there. I see how I show up. He says something, he has something and I say that's fascinating. I now feel defensive. I would be all these things that I would learn about myself. So it was great practice for actually staying connected to me in what seemed like kind of a high-stakes situation. But then I eventually realized it's very low stakes. A first date...it's easy. Either it works out for a second date or not. It's not a big deal. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 13:34 

So that was also kind of part of my growth, was going through the whole dating sequence and figuring out how to do that well. I'd have some gal friends that were like "I just hate dating." And then I decided I don't even have to hate it. It's just going out having supper with a gentleman and getting to know somebody, and then we go. And if it's a second one, great, if not, no. 

Tanya Hale 13:58 

And I think dating provides such an amazing opportunity to find yourself, to do exactly what we're talking about, because you can look back at a date and go, "oh, like, why did I say that? Why did I just, you know, let him say that and not respond with my opinion? What was I afraid of?" And so the work that I got to do in that process of saying, "why didn't I show up with my opinions and with my ideas? Why was I so fearful of sharing that?" That was a great piece for me as well, of learning to find myself and know myself and appreciate myself. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 14:36 

Exactly. No, exactly. I recall this one day, it was with a guy I affectionately called Motorcycle Mike, but he started out with, it was a little quiz on foreign affairs. Like asking me all these different questions. And I know I didn't perform well. But listen, I was valedictorian and I was student body president. I could hear my part of me going, listen, we're gonna step up and we're gonna show this guy and all the things. And then I was like, "oh, wait, Lovey, we don't have to show him anything. In fact, supper's nice. I'll just eat supper and he can keep talking." And he was kind of dismissive and this and that. And I thought, "oh, he for sure isn't my guy. And I don't even feel like I need to leave early. It's just, this is what it is." But this whole internal dialogue about "what does he think of me?" And then switching to, "I know what I think of me. This is gonna be fine. We'll just let him go and it'll be delightful." And from then on, it was easy to go, "well, what do I think about this? How do I feel in this relationship?" And I'll tell you, going from feeling dismissed or unheard or unimportant to now in a relationship where it's exactly the opposite. 

Tanya Hale 15:58 

Yeah. You and I have been through our dating and marriage journey. I mean, we've been through all that together because I think when we first met, I was still in this place where I was like, "why would I wanna mess up my life with a man?" I think that's where I still was. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 16:10 

Oh, I remember that, yeah. 

Tanya Hale 16:11 

Yeah, and I loved, as you started dating as well, the idea that you taught me about how going out on a date with somebody  else is really dating myself. It's really learning to date me. Tell a little bit more about that idea, because I thought that was so brilliant. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 16:29 

Well, here's the important thing is like, when you go out on a date, you take you with you every time. So I would almost watch myself, like how I showed up, how I'm, well, let me tell you this other thing. I was with a girlfriend once and we... went on this hike. It was fantastic. But we were sweaty, dirty, this and that. And she was like, "Oh, I've got a date in like 15 minutes." I'm like, "what?" And I said, "Do you want to shower change? What do you want to do?" And she goes, "no, no, no, I never dress up until like the third date." And I was like, "what?" It was like transformative. Her point was, you know, I'm just going to check in, find out. I don't have to put my supreme self forward. I'm just going to be me and see how that meets. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 17:20 

And that was a big deal for me to say, "Listen, I don't have to take some act on the road. I'll just be me. We'll just converse. If it works out, great." And then it's fascinating to watch these old people-pleaser parts of me show up my old perfectionism, my old black and white stuff, where I was either right or wrong. And now I'm just like, oh so upset with myself or whatever. And can I support myself when I'm in this situation, that's the question. Can I still love myself when I'm on a date and they're trying to figure out, is this a go or whatever? So how do I show up for myself? And that's why I was, actually, it shows that I was dating myself and showing me what I like. And I didn't like foreign affairs tests. And it made me feel very dismissed when somebody else would say, "oh, what podcast, da, da, da." And then they're like, "oh, yeah, no." And then I realized, actually, I wanna be heard. I wanna be understood. I wanna connect. I want to have this easy vibe. So as I dated, I found out what I really wanted. And it's a really important kind of rite of passage. The next chapter is that I was able to find myself more thoroughly. And I was fascinated with what I found and loved it. Even my shadow side, I have fallen in love with. So yeah, love all of that. 

Tanya Hale 18:53 

Yeah. So I adore this idea that it can be the end of losing yourself and the beginning of finding yourself. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 19:02 

Yes, and falling in love with yourself. 

Tanya Hale 19:05 

Right. And then, this is such a valuable part. Now, whether somebody is divorced or not, I think every woman and every man has to find this place where like, "listen, I have to find myself. I have to be myself." And sometimes that requires some significant shifts if you're in a long-term marriage that I think we all have to step into this. But so tell me this. So you are now engaged to just a beautiful, amazing, wonderful man. I just adore him. How has being a whole you, finding yourself, knowing yourself, feeling whole for like the first time in your life...you were whole before you met Chris. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 19:52 

Yes. 

Tanya Hale 19:53 

Right. And so how has being whole been impacted your relationship with him? 

Wendy Lee Johnson 19:59 

Well, let me tell you briefly about...it's because some people asked at a bridal shower the other day, "how soon did you know it was him," and this I think is very interesting. So I feel like kind of our souls know, or we have a gut hunch, and our gut is actually part of our body. It's almost like our cells know, like the magnetism of peace or whatever. But if I'm not in touch with myself, I can't even get that reading. So when we had our first date, I was running, let's see, he was there early, I was on time, but I pulled into the parking lot. Popped out of the car. And I look over and at the same time, this guy pops out of his car. And I knew it was him. And I just felt, like, pulled to him. I felt calm. I felt easy. We went inside. We had a lovely dinner. The chatting was delightful. It was fun and relaxed. I didn't feel like I had to be anything other than myself. We went outside and he's 6'4". So he was standing on the pavement. I was up on the sidewalk. And I remember thinking, "I would like to hug him," I just wanted to be near him. And I never, never felt like that on a first date. And it was almost like my body knew before I knew. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 21:24 

But this is me being in touch with myself, also being aware of what I'm feeling. So then he said, "you know, how about if we  go out in a couple of days?" And I also had a cardinal rule about no next dates on the first date, you have to go home, you have to think about it. I'm a girl who likes to write it all out spreadsheet. Like, you know, I'm just like, got a spreadsheet for everything. I was like, "Oh, yeah, I would love to." And so then we just started seeing each other like just about every other day. And about the end two weeks I said to him, I said, "So is this how you do it always? Kind of this stronger push? Or what's going on here? Because I've never dated one person this much." And he said, "I've never done it either. I just feel like I want to do it." It's this idea that now that I was in touch with myself, I knew that is what I wanted as well. And I never had this. People say that thing about "when you know, you know," and I tell you, I was flummoxed after almost every date. It was like second date or not second date? And I'm kind of have to talk myself into it if it was. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 22:37 

And this guy, it was like, "No, I know, I know it." And so that's how it's kind of been the whole way along. And he's provided all these deep, like ability for me to open up, to trust, to build confidence in us. So it's been very easy for me to be myself, to say all my things, he says his stuff. And so it's been this kind of beautiful coming together that, before, I don't think I would have been ready for, because I just wasn't that in touch with myself, to know even what I'm feeling. So now I do a fair amount of time going, "what is it I really want?" And then I say it. I risk saying what my wants and needs are. And then we talk about it. And I know that sounds basic. But for me, it's monumental, meaning nothing on the back burner. If I think about something that day, I say it that day. And I just really, the more I cultivate this, the more I'm cultivating our relationship, that stepping into the "us" circle, that's me stepping in is saying my needs and wants because that's always been difficult for me. And yeah, so that's also the close of the chapter of not knowing myself very well. And the opening of the chapter of knowing myself. 

Tanya Hale 24:03 

Yeah. I love that. It makes me think about this idea that when we are not a whole self, when we have all these big gaps of pieces of us that we don't know and understand, sometimes we are looking for somebody else, whether it be a person we're dating or even our spouse, if we're married, to fill in those gaps so that we can feel whole. We want somebody else to take care of that for us. And that's just never, ever going to work. We are responsible for our own wholeness. And I think, I love this point that you're making that when you are whole, you can understand yourself at a level that you never have before. And from that place, you understand what you want and you recognize it when it comes to you. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 24:50 

Oh, very good. Very good. Yes. And I feel like I can tell you when that happened in my dating career, because then I didn't approach dating with this desperateness, and not desperate, let's see this real wanting, wanting. 

Tanya Hale 25:05 

And the scarcity mindset too, I think. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 25:07 

Yeah. Like I really needed it to work out, and why isn't it worked out? And this is 35 first dates in this amount of time. And why isn't he here yet? Like this needing to have even a timeframe on it. And once I felt more whole and understood myself better, and like you said, was filling my own gaps, then it was like, "okay, take it or leave it. It's okay. Either way. I'm good either way." And it was easier to even do dating. Like, you know, sometimes I would date for three months, pretty regular, maybe two first dates a week. And then sometimes I would take breaks because it was exhausting. But the exhausting piece is trying to fill your gaps. The exhausted piece is trying to find somebody who loves me when I don't love myself all the way. So that's kind of the, I don't know, the growth or the journey of it. 

Tanya Hale 26:06 

I just love it all. I think the more that we get to the place, whether married or not, the more we get to a place where we love ourselves, where we're not desperate for somebody else to love us so that we can feel good. You know, and not that having other people love us isn't a great thing, because it is, that's one reason we get in relationships. Why we, why we choose to move into that us space is because it is amazing to have a person there to be a witness to our lives. You know, we don't need them to come in and fix our lives. We don't need them to do all these stuff. We all just want somebody to connect with, to witness our lives and to support us as we go through all the things that we're going through. 

Tanya Hale 26:50 

And when I'm whole, I can be okay showing up and saying, "yeah, I don't need you to fix my stuff, but watch, help, you know, I just like having you there because that feels good." But I don't need them there to fill in all those gaps and to help me figure out life. Like I can figure out life, but I do love to figure it out with another person there. And I think that that's part of the process as well of this wholeness that we can come to, that becomes where divorce then can sometimes be the beginning of one of the most amazing journeys of finding yourselves. And then whether we find our another person to share that with or not, we're a whole person who can experience the fullness of life and everything that it has to offer. Even if we end up being by ourselves the rest of the time. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 27:44 

Right. Right. Well, it's interesting. You brought up the point about not fixing each other because you know, I told you my history of hard worker, do it all, get it done. And then Chris has a bit of the same of, you know, hard worker, do all the things. And he said he was kind of a sherpa and I said I was a sherpa and he goes, "what do you think happens when two sherpas get together?" Well, for sure the work gets done. But it's interesting because we have patterning of, "oh, you need this. I'll do it. You need this. I'll do it." So we have to be careful also about that, about a lot of listening and not necessarily fixing, but just a lot of that stepping into the "us" circle, the being together. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 28:32 

And the brilliant piece of this is I've never really done it. And it feels so much different than I thought. The love feels so, it almost feels like 3D rather than 2D. And it's very nuanced. It feels deeper. It feels like it's all around. It's like I feel him all the time, but even if he's like the sun behind the clouds, I know he's there. It's like, I know he's still in the "us" circle and that's where I am as well. And that feels intense. It feels amazing. And I couldn't be more pleased with this new chapter that I would never have had, had I stuck with the old chapter. So it's kind of the beginning of something completely new for me, completely new. And, you know, I'm not a baby anymore. So to have this happen at this stage of life, I would have never guessed. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 29:42 

So I'm 61 and getting married in a week. And I am, it's just so exciting. All my kids will be there, everyone. And it's all the love and all the bringing together and to celebrate. So I just, I can't imagine that this would have happened if you'd asked me this when I was closing out the divorce chapter, I would have never supposed that this was even on the table. Yeah, you don't know what you don't know. 

Tanya Hale 30:14 

Right. I'm so excited to see you next week at your wedding, by the way, can hardly wait. The last thought that this kind of brings up for me is this space of the huge piece of intimacy that I think that Sione and I have been able to create has been this space of, I love Jennifer Finlayson-Fife calls it "knowing and being known." This space of knowing him, like really knowing the truthfulness of who he is and not being afraid to know all the good, the bad, and the ugly and being known, not being afraid to put all my good, and bad, and ugly on the table either so he can look at it. And because I know that when I put it on the table, he's not going to stand over there and get all judge-y and go, "oh my gosh, who did I marry?" Like, this is ridiculous. He's going to go, "oh, interesting." Right? He's just going to go, "oh, I love that I know that about you. That's important to know." But how could he know me if I don't know myself enough to put all those pieces on the table? 

Wendy Lee Johnson 31:17 

And it sounds so basic. But honestly, if somebody had come to me and said this, like right before my first divorce, I don't think I would have actually believed them or known what they were talking about. Because the awareness, it's like a dim light that starts to grow. And it kind of grows inside you and you're like, "Oh, wait, what about this? Oh, what about this?" For example, the other day Chris called, he was saying some stuff that was going on for him that was really tough. And he said, "Wait, are you crying?" And I was like, bawling. My youngest just graduated from college and dah, dah, dah, all these things. I was kind of closing out that chapter of kids and everything. And before I would have said, "Okay, Wendy, just put that on hold. We'll listen to what he's talking about." But it's like we can even both say all the things even at the same time. And I just would have never believed. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 32:16 

It's so also refreshing that somebody cares so deeply about your feelings. It's like, I have to care about my feelings, then somebody else can care about them because I'll say that. But then he shows up and says his feelings as well. And that's that "know and be known." Because I don't know him unless he brings all of it. He doesn't know me unless I bring all of it. So that's been like, literally a treasure, like a golden treasure. 

Tanya Hale 32:47 

Yeah. And for me, it's something that I didn't even know was missing in my previous marriage. And yet this is the crux of all the good that's going on in this space that I'm in now. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 33:02 

Right. So the question is, I think, can you make a change when you don't have like a huge life change crisis? Maybe you do and there's a book called "Broken Open." And it's the idea that when we have these big changes, where our heart is open, we're available to to make a change in our own life. But can you break yourself open when you're just in a regular relationship and nothing epic has happened? It's just not where you want it to be. And I love the idea of people, you know, it takes somebody else hoping maybe I don't even know what it takes. But I know for me, it's taken coaching, it's taken, you know, divorce, it's taken all these things to really help me to turn around, increase my awareness, and fall in love with myself, be able to say my needs, but stay connected and then fall in love with somebody else on a deeper level. 

Tanya Hale 33:57 

Yeah. Yeah. And to create a life that that I didn't even know was possible. Like, I couldn't have even dreamt of the kind of relationship that I had before, because I didn't even know it exists. I didn't even know the elements of it that were so important, this knowing myself and being known by some else. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 34:17 

Exactly. 

Tanya Hale 34:18 

And knowing him, like I had no idea that that was a piece. And so I'm living, I'm living a life that I just had no concept of 10 years ago. And I think you are too. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 34:28 

Yes. No, it's exactly the truth. It's exactly the truth. And then it begs the question, you know, "what's coming next?" I can hardly believe it, you know, but I feel like I'm on a path that is just awesome. It's of course it's 50-50. I don't expect it to be easy. Life together is always more complex than life apart, but it's so much richer and so much more in depth. And before, who would I share all of these things with? And now I have somebody to practice it with, to really be aware of myself and then bring that to him, all of it, and just lay it right out. And you're talking to a person who hasn't done that in the past. So, so yeah, it feels completely new. Completely new. 

Tanya Hale 35:19 

Yeah. And I love that idea. Like, like "what's next?" Sione and I always use this idea that we say, "you know what, we think that our relationship is at an eight, but what if it's actually really just at a two? What if we have all this space to grow and deepen and engage in ways that we can't even fathom right now?" And so we love to think, "maybe we're just at a two." 

Wendy Lee Johnson 35:47 

That's kind of brilliant because Chris and I are pretty sure we're at a 10 right now. It feels like a 10. 

Tanya Hale 35:54 

Oh, it feels like we're at a 10 too. I think a 10 absolutely comparatively to what I knew before. What if, Wen, what if you're only at a two? 

Wendy Lee Johnson 36:05 

Oh gosh. 

Tanya Hale 36:06 

Like what's available? 

Wendy Lee Johnson 36:08 

Mind blown. 

Tanya Hale 36:09 

Yeah, it's kind of crazy. All right. Any last words of like, how divorce is not the end, how it's just the beginning for you before we log off? 

Wendy Lee Johnson 36:19 

Well, I would say for sure you have to move through those emotions that come directly after divorce. Give yourself a lot of compassion around the fear, resentment, the anger, all of that, and grieving all the loss. You have to move through that. And then as you start on the dating thing, realize it is going to be wildly uncomfortable in the beginning. And it's part of the journey though. It's how you find yourself and increase your awareness. It took me a while to do it and even a second marriage. But worth the journey. And don't rush into anything. And people say, "oh, do you wish you hadn't gotten married that second time?" I'm like, "actually not." That was kind of the epic dealio that I needed to kind of get me going on this new way. And what if I hadn't done it? And what if I'd never found this, then ah, that would be a big loss. That would be a page I hadn't turned and I wanted to. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 37:20 

So I would say respect everything that comes into your life as happening for you and not to you. So let go of the the pain, the resentment. If you're co-parenting still, do it with grace, be classy, you know, just bring your best self to all of that. Realize what a gift...I often look back and think, you know, I wouldn't have had all these wonderful children had I not been married. And such a gift. And what if it's always supposed to be a chapter end at that time? I just didn't know. It's like a suspense. And I didn't know when that chapter was going to end. And it's like, surprise. And then, okay, there we go. And find the beauty of it and keep going, and fall in love with yourself. Because yourself is who you take with you. So that's, I guess, what I would say. And I'm like a poster child now. Well, you're a poster child as well, happy to be married. And I feel like a poster child as well, getting married in a week. I just, I am so supremely happy. I couldn't tell you. 

Tanya Hale 38:28 

Yeah. Love it all. You're one of our faves for sure. Oh, thank you Wendy. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 38:35 

Absolutely. 

Tanya Hale 38:37 

Tell people really quick if they missed last week's podcast when you were on, tell people what you do, what your coaching jam is and where to find you and all that good stuff. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 38:45 

No, I'd love to. So I'm a coach for parents, and parents especially that are having kids that are kind of sliding off the map, doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And as parents, you're kind of like, "listen, I was never trained for this. I do not know how to handle this." So I help parents especially of adopted children and you can find me, I have a podcast called "Parenting the Tough Stuff: and it's wherever podcasts are found. 

Tanya Hale 39:12 

It's brilliant by the way. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 39:14 

Thank you, thank you. As well, I have a website that you can find out more about me. It's wendyleejohnsoncoaching.com. And you can just look that up and find me there. And I adore helping parents. The fun part is I work with a lot of husbands and wives. So I get to do a lot of this relationship piece at the same time. And it's been really brilliant. It's a significant, I don't know, contribution that I think I was made to do. So yeah, it's been delightful. 

Tanya Hale 39:48 

Love it. Thanks so much, Wendy, for being here. Thanks for sharing your story and your insight and your experience, because I think it's just so valuable to understand. I mean, everybody's journey is gonna be different, of course. But I love hearing your journey of how divorce is a difficult, difficult thing. Every person that I work with who's been divorced is like, "that's the hardest decision I've ever made, one of the hardest things I've ever gone through." It's just so difficult. And to know that we can turn that ending into a beginning, and the beginning of something that is more beautiful and incredible than we could ever have imagined when, when the ending came. 

Wendy Lee Johnson 40:32 

Yeah, that's very good. If you've even think about how a book is formatted and the plot keeps getting deeper and more rich and more developed; that's the part where we are now, is that we're more rich, more developed. And of course, we want to move there. 

Tanya Hale 40:49 

Alright, my friend, thank you so much for having me here. 

Tanya Hale 40:57 

Thank you so much for joining me today. If you would love to receive some weekend motivation, be sure to sign up for my free "weekend win" Friday email, a short and quick message to help you have a better weekend and position yourself for a more productive week. Go to tanyahale.com to sign up and learn more about life coaching and how it can help you get to your best self ever. See ya!