00:00 

Hey there, welcome to Intentional Living with Tanya Hale. This is episode number 302, "Gottman's Four Horsemen: Destroying Relationships Has Never Been so Easy." Welcome to your place for finding greater happiness through intentional growth, because we don't just fall into the life of our dreams...we choose to create it. This is Tanya Hale and I'm your host for Intentional Living. 

00:25 

Alright, hello there, my friends. Welcome to the podcast today. I am just so glad to be here. I've got some great stuff. But before we jump in, I want to talk to you about something that I am going to do that's brand new for me. I have had several people ask me if I have ever coached couples. And the answer to that has been "no, that has not been anything that I've ever done." But I feel like my skill set is moving into an area where maybe I could do that. So, but I'm going to have some pretty strict restrictions on this because I don't want one spouse who really wants to be here and the other spouse who's going to be dragged into coaching. So here's what I am planning on doing. This is going to be my practice stuff. So as a practice, you're going to get a super good deal if you get to coach with me, if this is something that you want. I usually work with my clients for 12 sessions. But what I'm going to do with the couples, if I have anybody who wants to give this a shot with me, I'm going to charge you the same amount that I would charge for 12 sessions. But you will actually be getting 18 sessions. 

01:45 

So one week I will meet with the wife separately and the husband separately. And then the next week I would meet with the two together. And then the next week, both of them separately, the next week, both together. So that would go on for 12 weeks. So there would be six individual sessions with each of the people and six with the couple together. But this is the other thing, you've both got to be all-in on getting some work done on cleaning up your stuff. It can't just be one person dragging the other person, because I don't want to work with people who don't want to be worked with. That's not fun for me. And it would just be a waste of money for you. And I'm not here to waste your money. So if that is interesting to you, you can just go ahead and get a consult the exact same way that we always do it. And we can talk about things, see if it's a good fit, and I'll kind of interview you and see where you're both at and make sure that I think it's going to be a good fit. This is going to be brand new for me. So that's why the six sessions will be in there that will be free. But the other 12 will be the regular price, so basically you'll be getting 18 sessions for the cost of 12. And I'm going to do that for two clients, so I think I already said that but there you go, that's what I'm thinking. 

03:07 

So that being said, I just want to say one more thing. If you've not left me a review, come on, my friends, this is such a simple way to share this amazing information. And it is a great way to help other people find it, because the more reviews I get that are five-star reviews, the higher it goes up when people just type in like "self-help," "marriage relationship help," the higher this shows up on their "suggested for you" podcasts. So it's a great way to share without putting yourself out there, if putting yourself out there makes you feel uncomfortable. And if you are a regular listener and this is impacting your life, please share it as well, because it will impact other people's lives. And if you listen to this with a friend, then you can go on a great walk and you can talk about the concepts and you can dive deeper and create an even deeper understanding as the two of you process and figure it out. That's a great idea. So do that. 

04:06 

Today we are talking about Gottman's Four Horsemen, side topic of destroying relationships has never been so easy. Okay, so I am a big fan of John and Julie Gottman. And one thing that I love so much about their work is that it is all about relationships and it is all research-based. They don't just make guesses about what works and doesn't work in marriages. They do loads of research. They gather the data and then they draw the conclusions from the data. And one really valuable piece of information that they teach is that there are four characteristics that have the capacity to destroy relationships, that pretty much are in every relationship that is going downhill. It has one of these four elements and often as people we just don't even know that these elements are there. They become just such a regular part of how we communicate and how we interact that we don't see them. So these four characteristics are referred to as "the four horsemen" and they are incredibly lethal to relationships. 

05:09 

So today we're going to talk about Gottman's Four Horsemen and show you how they show up in your relationships so you can increase your awareness around your own behaviors with regards to these characteristics. Often we are engaging in behaviors that are destructive and we just don't even know that we're doing it. So learning it here can be an amazing way to increase your awareness and then start to create shifts in your relationships. So I'm going to be using basic terminology and even some examples from the book called "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" by John Gottman. So if you want to dig into these concepts more fully, get yourself a copy, read it, and get to work. There is some really really great stuff in this book. And I think you're gonna like the things that we talk about today. 

05:57 

So here are the negative interactions that Gottman has labeled the four horsemen: criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling. Okay, so we're gonna do these one at a time. So the first one, the first horseman, is criticism. Gottman takes care to define the difference between a criticism and a complaint. So there will always be complaints in our relationships because people are different and we see and experience things differently and we all have preferences and likes and dislikes that are different than the other people in our relationship. Many of us though, rather than expressing a complaint, go into criticizing the other person. So here's the difference. A complaint focuses on the behavior or the event. When I talk to you about owning your own, that principle, we always start with the circumstance, the facts about the situation, and then we express our own feeling and thought about it. This is one way you are focusing on the behavior or the event and your own experience of it as Gottman teaches us to do through this. So that's a complaint. 

07:05 

Criticism, however, expresses negative feeling or opinions about the other person's character or their personality. So rather than seeing the situation as the problem, criticism sees the person as the problem. So here are a few examples from the book. So a complaint would be, "there's no gas in the car. I'm upset that you didn't fill it up like you said you would. Could you please deal with it tomorrow?" A criticism would approach the same situation by saying, "why can't you remember anything? I told you a thousand times to fill up the tank and you didn't. You're always so careless." Alright, so hopefully you were able to see the difference between those two. Now I tried vocally to make the other one, the criticism sound more like criticism, right? But the complaint focused on the situation being upsetting and the criticism focused on attacking the other person. They can't remember things, they're careless, right? So it was an attack on the person. 

08:03 

So here's another one from the book. The complaint: "I wish you had told me earlier that you are too tired to make love. I'm really disappointed and I feel a little embarrassed. Please let me know when you're not in the mood for sex. I really am fine with a 'no.'" Criticism, however, would sound like, "why are you always so cold and selfish? It was so mean of you to lead me on. What is your problem? Are you frigid?" So again, notice the difference between talking about the situation and how it impacted you as opposed to the blaming and the attacking the other person in a very personal manner. So here's one more from the book. The complaint says, "I need you to check with me before inviting anyone over for dinner. I wanted to spend some time alone with you tonight. I want us to schedule a romantic evening this week." Criticism would sound more like "why do you keep putting your friends ahead of me? I always come last on your list. Are you avoiding spending time with me?" 

08:57 

So Gottman explains that criticism is usually one of the first things to show up in our relationships. So if it is showing up in yours, don't freak out. All of us go there at some point, right? But just get to work identifying it, seeing it when it shows up, and cleaning it up. We are humans with human brains, and part of the criticism is our primitive brain seeking to protect us. It's just doing it in a dysfunctional and hurtful way. We've had so much bad behavior modeled for us over the years that criticism can almost be second nature if we're not paying attention. So listen to how you're speaking to the other person. Are you attacking them on a personal level? Are you blaming or accusing them? If so, check yourself and learn to focus on the behavior instead. Learn to express yourself in healthier ways, learn to offer a complaint rather than criticism. So using the "own your own" technique that I have taught you here on the podcast is a great way to do this, and just as as a reminder, it says when you name this neutral circumstance, just facts there, "when this happens, I feel (the one word emotion) because I'm thinking (and then share the thought that is creating that feeling)." Keep it neutral about them and focus on your own experience. No blaming, accusing, or attacking. Okay, if you want to refresh your memory about owning your own technique, go to podcast number 239. That's where I teach that that concept and it's really really helpful if you have not heard it or if  you just want to refresher. 

09:07 

Let's talk about the second horseman: contempt. So contempt comes from the place of one-up and conveys a healthy amount of disrespect. It will often show up in sarcasm and cynicism, maybe name-calling, eye-rolling, mockery, and even hostile humor. Contempt basically says, "you are ridiculous. You're not as good as me. In fact, you're even disgusting to me." And it is no wonder that contempt can be so disastrous in relationships. When our healthiest relationships are places of equality, introducing contempt will break down any pretense of equality and scream, "I detest you, you're not good enough." Now, many of us would shrivel at the thought of telling our spouse that we detest them and that they're not good enough. And we would never, ever in a million years use those words because they're mean and they're hurtful. But nonetheless, we can very easily convey that message in so many other ways, and we do. We don't take them serious. We mock their efforts, or we mock things that they say. We demean their efforts. We assume the moral high ground. We roll our eyes and let out a sigh of frustration. We make fun of their ideas, or we may tell them that they're acting like a child, or we may treat them like a child. All of these can become common and yet unseen patterns in our behaviors toward the people that we love. 

12:13 

So here's an example from the book to help you see it more clearly, and I just typed this straight from the book. So here we go. Dara literally sneers at her husband's suggestion that they keep a list of chores on the refrigerator to help him remember. She says, "do you think you work really well with lists?" Oliver tells her that he needs 15 minutes to relax when he gets home before starting to do chores. So, she asks him, "if I leave you alone for 15 minutes, then you think you'll be motivated to jump up and do something?" She's still sneering. "Maybe. We haven't tried it, have we?" Oliver asks. Dara replies, "I think you do a pretty good job of coming home and lying around or disappearing into the bathroom," she says. And then she adds, challengingly, "so you think that's the cure-all, to give you 15 minutes?" 

13:05 

So, notice how in this example Dara totally moves into a one-up position. Did you hear it? She's the gatekeeper for all the chores, she demeans him for how he isn't doing it right, she mocks his suggestions of how to resolve her concern, she is very clearly disgusted with Oliver's behavior and with him as an extension. How do you think Oliver feels when he's treated that way? Right? This is what we're doing in our relationships, we're being hurtful and mean when we would never really want to be hurtful and mean. But contempt is fueled by long-simmering negative thoughts about the partner. This is why it's so important to clean up things as we go along. Check out podcast 193, "No Back Burner Issues." If you want to see this more and to learn more about how to clean things up in your relationships, we cannot let things simmer on the back burner. When we continue to think negatively about the other person over and over and over, it starts to become the only thing that we can see anymore. And then it pours even more fuel on our contempt because we no longer see their positive aspects and attributes. We become blinded to the good. And from that place, it is so, so easy to put ourselves on moral high ground, which is a very dangerous hill from which to stake our claim. So contempt, gotta clean it up. 

14:40 

The third horseman that Gottman talks about is defensiveness. Getting defensive can sometimes feel as easy as breathing air. Our primitive brains throw us into protective mode as soon as we feel blamed, accused, or attacked. Now, often when we find ourselves moving into a defensive stance, it is in response to feeling as though we are being accused or blamed or attacked. And yet, just because the other person in our relationship is behaving in hurtful ways does not mean that we get to or want to respond in kind. In fact, we will just be pouring gas on the situation if we succumb to the temptation to go into hardcore defensive mode. Somehow our brain thinks, though, that if we provide just the right defense, that the other person will see the error of their ways, their inaccurate perceptions, and that they will back down and apologize. Really? When was the last time that happened for you? I can tell you in my previous marriage I don't think it ever happened, right? And Gottman's research shows that it doesn't happen, and that's because defensiveness is actually a way of turning the tables and blaming and attacking the other person. So they blame and attack us, and when we get defensive, we are blaming and attacking them. Because in essence, defensiveness says, "it's not me, it's you." 

16:05 

Gottman says that the one common form of defensiveness is the innocent victim stance. Gosh, I was so good at this in my previous marriage, which sounds a lot like whining and sends the message, "why are you picking on me? What about all the good things I do? There's no pleasing you," okay? Defensiveness will always escalate the conflict, which is why it's so dangerous in our relationships. It gets the two of you fighting about who is to blame, who is in the wrong, and it keeps us  focused on villain and victim, rather than moving us into solution-focused mode. Rather than becoming collaborative, about how to resolve the situation, we just go into this big blame fest about who is in the wrong, who's the villain, who's the victim. Oftentimes defensiveness doesn't even acknowledge the other person's point of view, and it definitely doesn't seek to understand it either. In this place, neither person is going to come out on top, and the relationship digs deeper and deeper into dissatisfaction and frustration. 

17:17 

If we really want to create intimacy in our relationships, it is imperative that we seek to understand the other person's point of view, that we see them for who they are, and that we hear what they have to say. And this can be hard because our primitive brain goes into hyper-protection mode by triggering our defensiveness, and defensiveness doesn't care about the other person. Defensiveness has a focus on ourselves, on us being seen and heard, and on our point of view being understood. To create a safe place, we have to gift the other person with questions that truly seek to understand. Now, we're seeking to understand, that's why we're asking questions, not to back them into a corner so that we can prove our own point. We ask questions to truly understand their point of view. We offer restatements about their point of view. We validate and empathize with them, and we accept responsibility for our part in their struggle. But this can only happen when we let go of our defensive tendencies and instead step into curiosity and look for the truth in what they are saying. 

18:31 

If you feel defensive, most likely there is truth there. There may be only a small amount of truth, but if you're feeling defensive, look for the truth. Find it. Address it. Own it. This can be difficult because our egos can be so darn fragile, and we want so desperately to be right that our primitive brain is freaking out and telling us to fight back instead of look for understanding. However, if we can step into our prefrontal cortex, engage that thinking brain, the place where we can process and analyze and respond the way that we want to rather than reacting and blaming and accusing and attacking, generally getting defensive, we can do some amazing work in our relationship's healing work. Defensiveness is easy because it doesn't take thinking. It's just letting our primitive brain run the show. Curiosity and really wanting to understand and take responsibility takes a lot of intentional thinking and setting our egos aside and that requires energy on our part. But, that's the place where we build intimate relationships, moving into showing up not being defensive, seeking to understand. 

20:02 

The fourth horseman is stonewalling, and this is when one partner eventually tunes out. This is where one of the people will look away or look down without making a sound. They will sit there and act as though they don't care about what is being said or that they don't hear. Stonewalling usually comes into relationships after the other three horsemen have already been engaged for a while, so it's generally more common to have stonewalling among people who have been married for longer periods of time. When a couple has been in a negative spiral for some time, the criticism, the contempt, the defensiveness of the other three horsemen can become overwhelming and exhausting, and stonewalling becomes the easy way out at that point. No fighting necessary, just tune out and wait it out. Eventually the other person will get tired of attacking and get no response. 

21:02 

This turning away seems like a natural defensive mechanism, but it's not just turning away from the contention, it's actually turning away from the marriage. When we choose to start disengaging by stonewalling, we start stepping into apathy, a sign that we just don't care enough anymore to expend energy on a fight or a disagreement to try and fix anything. An example of this could be a husband who comes home from work and gets met with a barrage of criticism from his wife and responds by turning on the TV or getting on his phone. The less responsive he is to her, the more she yells and the louder she get. She is in protective mode feeling unseen and unheard and feels plenty of frustration that he's not responding to her. But as a stonewaller, eventually he will just sit there and not hear anything until she stops or he'll get up and leave the room in an effort to physically distance himself from the contention. Stonewalling is a sign that someone is emotionally disengaging from the relationship and that's serious business. If you want to have a relationship with this person, that is a sign that things are seriously wrong. 

22:27 

Okay, so there are Gottman's four horsemen: criticism, contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling. Four things that indicate that a relationship is struggling. Four things that eat away at our will and our desire to connect and to be vulnerable. Four things that are hurtful and destructive, and also four things that we can engage in quite unconsciously. I often work with  clients who are engaging in these types of behaviors and they don't even see it. They see themselves as kind and loving people who would never hurt someone, including their spouse, on purpose. And the thing is, I don't think most of us would ever engage in hurting someone that we love on purpose. But what happens is that we get scared, we get triggered by our own insecurities, and our primitive brain takes over and starts doing these things, these four horsemen, and we don't even see it for what it is. We just see it as protecting ourselves from false accusations and hurtful comments. And then the next time we feel scared, we do the same behavior again, and pretty soon we have a pattern of behavior that is hurtful, and we're mostly unaware that it's happening and of how we're contributing to it. We don't even see that it's destructive. We feel that it's protective. 

23:55 

Now, we can see pretty clearly how our spouse is showing up, because we feel the sting of their words and their behaviors, but we really struggle to see our own engagement. That is why working with a coach can be so effective. We can help you see patterns that are so normal and make so much sense to you that you don't even question them. You don't see them for the hurtful, unkind behaviors that they are. And yet until you see them, you cannot address them. And that is what makes working with a coach so powerful, is I can help you see that you are engaging in these behaviors, and then I can help you figure out how do I start cleaning this up. In podcast number 295, just like seven podcasts ago, called "Safety in the Relationship Circle," I shared an analogy about an abused dog, hiding out in their corner, terrified of being abused again. Okay, even if that dog has been put in a safe home and is given food and water and spoken to softly and treated well, it takes a lot of time and effort to earn the trust of a dog like this, who's been abused. It takes a lot of consistent, kind behavior. 

25:15 

Our marriages are no different. Usually, after we begin seeing our hurtful behaviors, our spouse can be like that dog, They can be leery of trusting us, and it can just take some time to show that we are sincere and working hard to become the kind of spouse that we really want to be to clean up our dysfunctional behaviors. We are not mean and spiteful people, I know that. We are not trying to destroy the other person or hurt them intentionally. But we do it. We are humans and self preservation is our brain's number one priority. So often, very unconsciously, we engage in some pretty destructive behavior. I think for me after my divorce, when I really started doing this work, I was shocked at how much this kind of destructive behavior showed up in my previous marriage. I had no idea that I was being so hurtful and unkind. And it makes me sad that I treated him that way because I really, really didn't know. I didn't see it. And I think if you're engaging in it, I don't think you see it. But if you're having these kinds of fights, this kind of contention, it's there. We just got to clean it up. We can become aware of how we are hurting our relationships. We can see what we're doing. 

26:49 

And I promise we can change how we think, how we feel, how we behave. We are capable of change. It takes work and it can be painful to be sure. But I promise it is work worth doing. Our relationships are precious. We all want to feel safe and loved in them. And there is a lot of healing that takes place when we start responding with love and compassion, rather than with criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling. When we choose to see our person as someone to love and cherish, as someone we want to have a beautiful and amazing life with, as someone who is flawed and human just like us, but who deep down just wants to be loved and accepted just like us, then we can start to shift our feelings from contempt and anger to compassion and kindness. We can begin the work of learning how to love them like they have never been loved before and of learning how to love like we have never been able to love before. We can truly begin the process of becoming the best version of ourselves, someone who builds and strengthens others around us, and someone who makes our partner's life significantly better. 

28:15 

I tell you what, I've done a lot of this work, and I know it's work, and I know it's hard. But the relationship that I am in now... cannot even believe that I get to live this. But it is both of us stepping in and creating this. Here's the thing. We cannot just be sitting around waiting for our spouse to get themselves right first. It has to start with us. Remember Mahatma Gandhi's quote, "Be the change that you wish to see in the world." My friend, you get to do that in your relationships. If you want to be treated with more love, treat those around you with more love. If you want more kind words said to you, then say more kind words. If you want to be understood more, seek to understand others more. If you want more acceptance, accept others more. You get to be the change that you wish to see in your relationships. It has to start with someone having the courage and the determination to switch the trajectory. And it may as well be you. 

29:32 

And one last reminder, please. Please, if you are seeing these harmful behaviors in yourself, be kind. You have very good reasons for behaving this way. They have protected you at some level. They have helped you feel safe, and they have helped you get to this place where you are now able to see them and have the courage to address them. These behaviors are just no longer serving you and creating what you want, and now it's time to move on and to create something else. Don't beat yourself up for how you have behaved in the past. A lot of compassion, please, for where you are now and for your past that may not have been so pretty. Let's just look to the future with a better understanding of how to create something different, of how to feel and act differently, and of how to love more deeply. Be kind and compassionate for yourself because you have reasons for reacting that way. Let's not beat ourselves up. Let's create a safe space for us to see and to move forward. You've got this, my friend, and I've got you. 

31:00 

If you are interested in seeing if coaching is a good fit for you, right now I'm doing 90 minute consults, and that is because I want to give you a chance to experience what coaching is like, because that's part of your decision-making process. If you're going to invest a lot of money in coaching, I want you to know what you're getting. This is an opportunity for you to get on a call with me. We can talk about coaching. I can coach you for a bit, talk about your situation, help you see and understand things, and then you can make some decisions about whether this is a good investment for you of money and time and energy at this time in your life. 

31:41 

Promise you, coaching is an amazing tool. If you're feeling a little bit over your head, coaching would be so powerful. You don't have to live the next 20, 30, 40, even 50 years of your life in a miserable marriage. You can clean things up. And I think most of us can. I think there are situations where absolutely we need to get out because they are harmful and abusive in different ways, but I think there are far more of us that can clean stuff up than do. And I help a lot of clients who say, "I don't want to get divorced, but I don't know how to clean this up. I don't know how to fix this." And I get to help with that. And I love it. It's amazing to me to be a part of people's journeys in that way. And it's also amazing to me to be part of people's journeys who are divorced or getting divorced and who want to be able to clean things up so that in the future, they can have better relationships. I get to do that too and I love it so much. 

32:49 

This is what I feel God has called me to do. And that's why I'm here every week doing this for you. Okay, my friends, I got you. Let's work together. Let's get some stuff done here. This is all part of growing up, is seeing our dysfunctional patterns of behavior and cleaning them up. Hey, that's going to do it. Hope you have a really, really awesome week and I will see you next time. Ciao. 

33:17 

Thank you so much for joining me today. If you would love to receive some weekend motivation, be sure to sign up for my free "weekend win" Friday email: a short and quick message to help you have a better weekend and position yourself for a more productive week. Go to tanyahale.com to sign up and learn more about life coaching and how it can help you get to your best self ever. See ya.