Tanya Hale 00:00 

Hey there, this is Intentional Living with Tanya Hale and this is episode number 228, "Our Relationship Rules." Welcome to your place for finding greater happiness through intentional growth, because we don't just fall into the life of our dreams...we choose to create it. This is Tanya Hale and I'm your host for Intentional Living. 

Tanya Hale 00:20 

Hey there, this is Tanya. Welcome to the podcast today. Really quickly before we start, if you have not checked out the Mastermind groups that I am doing and if you are interested in them, this would be a great time to do it before they fill up. I have one Mastermind class called "Let's Talk About Love." All things love. We're going to discuss love for ourselves, love for others, loving when it's hard, how to clean up our love, all that good stuff. Super excited about it. And the other one is when called "When You're Considering Divorce." And if you or someone you know is in a space where they're considering divorce, this is a really great six weeks to dive deeper into how to make that decision and how to feel good about that decision and how to do that. So if you are interested, Masterminds are amazing. Such a great opportunity to talk and discuss and cover things at a deeper level. I promise, promise that you will leave a different person than you started because they're so amazing. So you can go to my website tanyahale.com and at the top there is a little tab that says "Masterminds" and you can click on those and get all the information for them. They start November 15th. So if you're interested, make sure you get signed up for that. 

Tanya Hale 01:38 

So with that said, we're going to jump into the podcast today. Today we are talking about our relationship rules and to talk about that, I have a special guest here today. You want to introduce yourself? 

Sione 01:53 

Hi, this is Sione, the same Sione you have heard about in other podcasts. Finally, seven months after marriage, I get invited to be a guest on the podcast. 

Tanya Hale 02:05 

I know, he's been whining and whining. 

Sione 02:08 

Right, right? 

Tanya Hale 02:10 

He absolutely has not been whining. I just wanted to invite him, I think because I've had a couple of clients and we had some friends who were like, "hey, you've talked about these rules that you and Sione talk about and that you implement into your marriage and you feel like they're making such a huge impact and will you tell us more about that?" So I thought, "oh, if I have people approaching me asking about them, maybe it would be a good thing for us to share them." And I thought Sione would be a great person to come on and talk about it with me because he's the other half of this, right? 

Sione 02:45 

Right, and in full disclosure, I have no coaching certification or coaching knowledge, but I've been in a lot of therapy. 

Tanya Hale 02:54 

And we talk the coaching stuff all the time. He's actually pretty darn good at coaching me, which I appreciate. So we're going to start off, we're going to talk about four rules today that we use in our relationship that I feel coaching has given us that really makes a huge difference in how we communicate with each other and on how we keep things clean and keep things where we want them to be and keep our relationship moving in the direction we want it to go. So anything you want to say over all on these rules before we jump in? 

Sione 03:30 

No, let's jump in. 

Tanya Hale 03:32 

Okay. Alright. So here we go. Rule number one. I actually did a podcast on this. Go back and look it up if you want to find more information. Rule one, no back burner issues. EVER. Capitalized. Okay. No back burner issues ever. Probably two or three times a week, one of us will ask the other one, "any back burner issues?" And we take an opportunity to chat about things when they need to. Now, if you're not familiar with exactly what that means, you want to explain it? Sione? 

Sione 04:03 

Sure. It's anything that's bugging you. So you park the car crooked in the driveway, or you spent too much money this month, or you're trying to manage your mind around dirty clothes laying on the floor or dishwasher that didn't get loaded or emptied. Just any of those little things or big things that are affecting how you interact with your partner. 

Tanya Hale 04:30 

Right. Sounds to me like there may be some back burner issues. 

Sione 04:34 

Nope. Nope. I always park the car straight. 

Tanya Hale 04:41 

Yeah. So anything that bothers you. Now, here's the thing: in our human brains, we're going to want to say things like, "it's really not that big of a deal." But that's a problem because why, Sione? 

Sione 04:54 

It's like an infection. It just...underneath the surface starts festering and then gets worse and worse and can cause more problems later on. 

Tanya Hale 05:01 

Right. Yeah, and so we just have the rule that zero back burner issues. It may seem really small and insignificant, but the problem is once we start saying, "well, this one's not really a big deal. I'm not going to worry about this." Then the next time something comes up that's just a tiny bit worse, then we go, "well, I didn't make a big deal about the last one. I really can't say it this time," or even if they do the same thing three or four times in a row, then it really starts to annoy us. But then we're like, "well, but he's gotten away with it for, you know, four times." And so then it just becomes really hard to bring it up. So just so much easier to just have this rule, no back burner issues. 

Sione 05:46 

And it can be big and it can be small. And you cannot, you don't even have to have sorted out your own thoughts about it yet. But just say, "this is kind of bugging me and I'm not sure why." And that's an opportunity again to have that conversation to try and sort through it. 

Tanya Hale 06:04 

Yeah. Have you noticed a difference in our relationship since we have this rule? 

Sione 06:11 

Well, we kind of started out with this rule. So I haven't noticed a difference for us, but certainly a difference in biting my tongue, which I don't do with you at all. And saying, and again, saying to myself the same thing you just said, which is, "it's not that big of a deal. Why am I making a big deal out of this? But there's something underneath there, something that's bugging me about it."And rather than bring it up, I just stuff it down and choose not to feel that emotional discomfort. And when I start building up walls to not feel things, then it's hard to have an authentic and open relationship with someone. 

Tanya Hale 06:52 

Yeah. And so that intimate partnership that we really, really want is very dependent upon us not having these back burner issues and keeping everything out in the open and learning to really have that honest, open relationship. 

Sione 07:10 

Right. So when I say "something bugging you?" and you're like, "no." Okay, something's bugging you. It's hard to be authentic and open and true to yourself and to the relationship when that stuff is going on. 

Tanya Hale 07:25 

Yeah, absolutely. But I think that leads right into the next rule that we have, which is how do you bring up these issues without always hurting the other person or being mean or making it sound like you're always in the wrong.

Sione 07:42 

Or critical. 

Tanya Hale 07:43 

Yeah, because I'm having to bring this up. And that is rule number two, which is own your own. So what this means is that if I'm going to own my own with a back burner issue, I have to take responsibility for the experience that I'm having being frustrated. So here's how I do that. And you know how we talk about the thought model. We're going to, in this, we're going to bring out the first three lines of the thought model: the circumstance, the thought line, and the feeling line. And how I propose that we do that is we say, "when (here's the circumstance), I feel (name the feeling), because I'm thinking (name the thought.) Okay, so that gives me a chance to talk about things, but don't go into blaming, don't go into accusing, don't go into finger pointing, right? None of that. I have to own that this is my problem. And this is just the factual circumstance of what's happening. So... 

Sione 08:51 

Do you think this also applies to the good stuff too? When I see the dishwasher emptied, I feel grateful because I think that you did that to help us both out. 

Tanya Hale 09:07 

Yeah. Yeah, we haven't really talked about that much in the context of what we do with this, but yeah, I think absolutely. 

Sione 09:16 

You're still owning your own. Like I'm in charge of how I feel about you, not there's nothing you do that determines how I feel about you. 

Tanya Hale 09:24 

What, you mean I don't complete you? 

Sione 09:26 

It's definitely synergistic, but not completion. 

Tanya Hale 09:34 

Okay, so here's what that would sound like. I'm just gonna come up with an example off the top of my head. So I could say when, let's go back to the dishwasher idea, when you load the big glasses on the top, I feel frustrated because I feel like the dishwasher's not being loaded correctly. 

Sione 09:59 

I think the dishwasher's not being loaded. 

Tanya Hale 10:00 

I think, there we go. Thank you. See, look at the no back burner issues. Okay, when you know, when you load the dishwasher, I feel frustrated because I think that the dishwasher's not being loaded correctly. Okay, so the the thing I want you to recognize is what's happening. I'm not blaming. I'm not telling him that he's doing it wrong. I'm not making any kind of an accusation. I'm saying that when you load the dishwasher, I feel frustrated because I'm thinking that it's done wrong. Okay? So owning your own means that we're not blaming. We're not accusing. We just got to take that off the table. We cannot have an open communication and tell me why we can't have an open communication if we don't own our own? Sione, what do you think? If I blame you, what do you do? 

Sione 10:54 

Oh, if I feel blamed, it's my fault. I get super defensive. I'm really good at that. So... 

Tanya Hale 11:00 

Me too. I'm like, wait a minute, this is a you thing. 

Sione 11:04 

This is not a me thing. I always load the dishwasher perfect. It's just how I wanted it. 

Tanya Hale 11:09 

Yeah. So, if I blame, you get defensive. But if I say when, you know, the dishwasher's loaded this way, I feel frustrated because I'm thinking that it's not being done correctly. What's your job then? Rule number three. 

Sione 11:24 

Yeah, then I get to be curious, not defensive, and get to ask questions. And the question that I would ask in this situation would be, "what is it about the way I'm loading it that makes you think it's incorrect?" Or "what is the result of the way I load it compared to the way you load it?" Because there may be something I'm missing. There may be something you're missing. But there's no way to find that out if you're defensive, but only if you're curious. 

Tanya Hale 11:52 

Yeah. So if I make an accusation, a natural human response is to throw up those protective walls, right? 

Sione 12:01 

Dig in my heels. I did not load it wrong. 

Tanya Hale 12:03 

Well, then load it yourself, right? Then we would have the tendency to go into that. But if I own my own on that and say, "I'm frustrated because I'm thinking that it's loaded wrong," chances that he's not gonna get defensive or a little bit higher. And then, yeah, like he said, we just move into curiosity then. 

Sione 12:27 

And that takes a lot of different forms, but mainly it's asking questions about the circumstances and about the thinking about it so that I can understand more what position you're coming from, not to try and convince you otherwise, but just so that I can understand what is the issue, not backburner, no backburners, but what is the issue really? Like what's going on in your brain that's causing you to feel this way? 

Tanya Hale 12:59 

Yeah, and I think that, I think, Sione, you brought up, the biggest point is what we're seeking for here is understanding. 

Sione 13:07 

Right, not convincing you that I'm right and you're wrong because that's defensive. But just to say, "oh, interesting, why do you think?" You know what, "why do you think that way? And what is it I'm doing that makes you think the way you think?" And then I can understand what's going on. 

Tanya Hale 13:25 

Yeah, and there may be things that when he starts asking me all these questions, well, "what about me loading the dishwasher feels off to you or don't you like?" And I could say, "well, every time those big dishes get loaded on the top or those big glasses, they end up with all that gritty stuff in the top of the glasses. And when they're loaded on the bottom, then they don't get that. So if they're loaded on the top, then I have to rewash them all by hand anyway." 

Sione 13:51 

Well, and one of the things that in the past, that I did not know was that putting sharp knives in the dishwasher dulls the blades or something like that I still don't know that I understand. 

Tanya Hale 14:00 

That's what I've heard. 

Sione 14:01 

So I'm not quite sure how water can make metal less sharp but I've heard it from enough people that I think that it might actually be true. So getting the curiosity instead of saying "I don't know that that's a true statement, that can't be right. How can water dull a blade?" I get curious and say "oh what is it about putting a knife in a dishwasher that makes it wrong?" "oh it dulls the blade," "oh I didn't know that," because there's oftentimes that there's knowledge I don't have that with that knowledge then I'm able to change how I behave because I have additional knowledge, whether it's scientific knowledge of hot water dulling sharp knives or whether it's just "oh I didn't know that that bugged you I'm happy to ;oad the dishwasher the way you want it because I don't really care how the dishwasher gets loaded and if you have a lot of strong feelings about it, then yeah, let's load it the way you want it." So, but if I don't ever ask those questions, and I've never got to understand why you feel the way you feel if you never bring it up? I'm never gonna know right then by loading the dishwashers driving you bonkers. 

Tanya Hale 15:13 

I'll just keep seething and seething over there until I finally blow up one day, right? 

Sione 15:17 

That would perfect. Yeah. Then you can see me get defensive. 

Tanya Hale 15:24 

Yeah, right? We've done a pretty good job with this so far. So alright, so these are the first three rules that we have implemented in our relationship and we're kind of lucky because we had these rules understood right at the very beginning of when we started dating, and so we've had these implemented from the beginning. Like about two weeks after we met we sat down, decided we were gonna date serious, and we put these in place. 

Sione 15:51 

Yeah, it would be awkward for us not to do these things because the pattern is such that we always do these things But I think in previous relationship for me, it wasn't always in place and so it might not have been safer, might have seemed more awkward to bring this up in the way we've talked about now. 

Tanya Hale 16:11 

But not impossible if you've got a relationship that's been around for a long time. I mean, this is definitely a conversation that can happen. In fact, we went out to dinner with a couple just last week who are saying "hey tell us a little bit more about this" and they've been implementing it and you know and trying to figure this out. How do we start creating these new patterns of behavior in our relationship at this point? So it is doable. 

Tanya Hale 16:37 

So one thing I want to mention though is all of this is not to say that if if I'm frustrated with something and I own my own on it and he gets curious and not defensive, that doesn't mean that this is a way for me to expect him to do everything that I want. Because that's not a relationship, that's a dictatorship, right? I shouldn't just be able to say, "hey, I feel frustrated when this happens because I'm thinking that you don't care about me having to pick up all the socks," which he does not leave socks out, just FYI. But it's not a free pass for me to expect him to change everything that he's doing because I don't like it. And that's not a partnership. And if we want a partnership, it means that I can express how I feel. And then he gets to say, "okay, is that a big deal? Not a big deal."" Like is this something, as he asks curious questions, he can decide, oh, the grit in the glasses? Okay, that's kind of a big deal. I can see that. I can see that." And if I'm just like, "I just think it looks better when the dishwasher is loaded this way," which would not put that past me, right? I'm not saying anything. He can just go, "yeah, that doesn't really matter," right? And he can say, "I'm not going to change for that." And then I get to manage my mind around it. But the part of a relationship is that if I can change something that's easier, that's going to make his life easier and it's not going to hurt me, why wouldn't I want to do that? 

Tanya Hale 18:22 

So for example, I don't even know if you know that I do this, but I've always been...like...the dryer lint collector thing. I've just always been like, "every week or so, maybe every two weeks, it's okay." Like if there's just a tiny bit of lint around the outside, I'm like, "not a big deal." Like it can go three or four more loads before you have to do it. Well, sweet Sione is, he likes that cleaned up every time. 

Sione 18:50 

Every time. 

Tanya Hale 18:50 

And I could just go, "oh my gosh, that's ridiculous," and just decide not to do it, right? And he could just manage his mind around it. He could just say, "alright, well, then I guess every time I do laundry, I'm going to take the lint off the dryer trap. " 

Sione 19:10 

And not feel contempt or criticism of you when I do empty it and go, "holy cow, look at all this lint in here. I can't believe she doesn't care about me enough to empty this lint." Like that would be a back burner. 

Tanya Hale 19:24 

Yeah, yeah. But, you know, at one point it did get brought up and I was just like, okay, listen, it's a big deal for him. I can do that. That's not going to hurt me to take the lint off every time. Have you even noticed that there's never lint on the dryer thing? 

Sione 19:38 

Yes. 

Tanya Hale 19:38 

Right? Like, look at me. 

Sione 19:40 

I didn't want to say anything. 

Tanya Hale 19:42 

In case I decided to change my mind. 

Sione 19:45 

Yeah, or yeah, I just didn't want to ruin a good thing by talking about it. I'm a superstitious person. 

Tanya Hale 19:52 

Yeah. Well, you know me enough to know that if I feel like I'm being controlled, I'm like, "nope, not doing that ever." That's right. So but okay, so we do have a couple of examples for you here of how the no back burners, the owning your own and the curious, not defensive work. Do you want to go first? 

Sione 20:11 

Sure. Yeah. So one of my patterns of behavior is after dinner, I would just go into my study and and get to work. I have, there's lots of work that I got to get done and there's always more in my inbox than there is in my outbox. So getting that stuff done after dinner was always convenient for me. And at one point, Tanya said, "hey, Sione, why are you going in your office every night after dinner? I kind of want to spend time with you." 

Tanya Hale 20:42 

And was I mean about it? 

Sione 20:45 

No, you were you were very like, "hey, we need to talk about this because I'm feeling..." and I don't even remmeber what you said you were feeling. But I remember initially getting defensive and thinking, "hey, wait a minute, you know, I this is how I make money for us is by working, and and so I'm working really hard. And this is my one of my times where I'm really productive." And so I got very defensive about that. And so then my thinking after that was, "oh, why am I getting so defensive if there's no truth in this at all?" And so there must have been some truth in the statement that I was feeling as well that that made me think, "oh, maybe I am spending time in the evenings working and I should be spending it building the relationship." So when I feel that defensive feeling, that's kind of my warning sign that there's some truth here that I have not seen in the past. And maybe I don't want to see it. And that's why I blocked it is because it's going to be painful for me to figure out and maybe require some change and and not letting the primitive brain win. Because it was just easier to go in the office after dinner. I didn't have to deal with anything else. So that was where I was getting defensive about things. But finding that nugget of truth of, oh, I am going in here every single evening. And it is somewhat neglectful. So anyway, that was my getting curious and saying, "oh, where is where is that truth? And then talking to you about, well, what were you expecting?" And what were your, I guess "expectations" is the right word. What were your expectations about what we would be doing in the evenings being two very busy professionals? 

Tanya Hale 22:40 

Yeah, good stuff. 

Sione 22:43 

Is it? I don't know if it's good stuff. 

Sione 22:45 

Yeah, I think it was I think it was great because I didn't know you'd gotten that defensive. But I think that that's an important point to make about when we feel defensive. This is our opportunity to stop and say "oh, I'm defensive because there's truth there. Where is the truth?" And maybe the truth is only 2%, but there's still truth and that's what we get a look at and that's what we get to figure out is is why are we defensive? 

Sione 23:08 

And I think it's often truth that we don't want to acknowledge is true. Right? If you were to say, "Hey, you're great." I'd be like "yes, you're right." You know, like, there's no defensiveness in that truth. But when it's something that's true that maybe I'm thinking that I don't like about myself,, and someone says it out loud and then I start to get defensive about it. And I try to justify that behavior and other things that are not healthy for our relationship. 

Tanya Hale 23:41 

Yeah. So just another really quick example that we had. When we had just been married a few weeks, we went down to our lakehouse down in Kentucky and spent several days there. And then we had to get it all cleaned up and everything. 

Sione 24:01 

There's some home repairs that needed to be done, minor stuff. 

Tanya Hale 24:04 

Yeah. And then before we left, we had to clean everything up. And so we got stuff done. And so the morning we were leaving, we were planning on leaving by eight or nine. 

Sione 24:15 

9:45. 

Tanya Hale 24:16 

9:45. This was obviously a big deal. 

Sione 24:19 

I remember very clearly. 

Tanya Hale 24:21 

So we were planning on leaving at 9:45 apparently. And that morning, Sione was like, "oh, I totally forgot that I needed to fix this one thing." And he's like, "but I gotta go to the hardware store." Well, the lake house is like out in the middle of Buuraw. And so he's about 15 minute drive to the hardware store, about 15 minutes back. And I have this thing with time. And it has nothing to do with Sione. It has everything to do with previous experiences in my life. But I'm really, I get really uptight and feel a lot of anxiety. Well, not a lot of anxiety. I don't know if that's the right word, but I get uptight about time. And so when we say we're leaving at 9:45, I'm busting my butt to be ready and to leave by 9:45 because that's kind of a big deal for me. And so I was inside just going, "oh my gosh, like you're starting a project? The morning we're supposed to be leaving?" We're supposed to be doing this. Well, you know, he did a great job and he got it done. And we still, we still were in the car by 9:45. 

Sione 25:23 

Yeah, we left one minute early. 

Tanya Hale 25:26 

There we go. But inside I was going through all this stuff in my brain. Right? I was just like, "oh my gosh, like I can't believe he's leaving this till the last minute," and all this stuff. So anyways, we're driving away from the lakehouse, we had to like clean the kitchen. We had to change the sheets and wash all the stuff and do all the things. Um, but it was our first time leaving the lakehouse together. And so when we're driving away, we had these rules and I don't know if I was really following them really specifically, but in my head, I was like, "okay, I want to bring this up," but I was still a little bit nervous and still struggling with really being super, super honest at that point. But I remember saying, "okay, so let's talk about how this morning went. How did this go with both of us getting out? Did I do all the things that you would expect me to do? Did you do all the stuff was, you know, how do we feel about it?" And so we started talking about it. 

Sione 26:25 

Yeah. 'Cause we had talked previously that you like to pack the night before most of the stuff and then put the last minute stuff in the next morning. And I'm more of a keep everything out until the end and then pack it all right before you go kind of a person so we definitely have two different styles on that. So we're like visiting that to say "okay, how did we do? This our first time packing up and leaving from a vacation. How did that go?" 

Tanya Hale 26:55 

Yeah, so in that conversation I had the opportunity and took the opportunity to say you know, "I was feeling a little bit frustrated that there was this last-minute project that needed to be done when we've been here all week and it could have been done anytime in the week." And I don't think I was mean in how I shared that. 

Sione 27:15 

No, not at all. 

Tanya Hale 27:16 

But I just was trying I was trying to move into this new space in our relationship of really being honest. So what was your response? How did you respond to all of that? 

Sione 27:28 

Well, since we left a minute early it was easy to say "yeah, I don't know that there's any truth in this statement. We left on time." And so I didn't see what the issue was exactly and so I was able to ask questions like "oh we left early even so, you know, what exactly is going on, like what exactly was the issue this morning?" And then we were able to bring up more conversation and more discussion about what your feelings and what your thoughts were about the home repair that still had to be done that I'd forgotten about. 

Tanya Hale 28:10 

Yeah .So in this is what was so brilliant because he moved into this curious space rather than getting defensive, which could have been very easy. 

Sione 28:19 

I could have easily just said "look, it needed to be fixed and I forgot about it. Chill out!" You know, like it had to get done. Yeah, so go with the flow a little bit. 

Tanya Hale 28:31 

Yeah, which which you would have had pretty much every right to do but... 

Sione 28:35 

It would've been nice though, It would have been following our rules. 

Tanya Hale 28:35 

But you moved into this really beautiful space of curiosity and in doing that over the course of the next day and him asking questions and staying in that curiosity, we were able to figure out that my struggle there had absolutely nothing to do with Sione. It had everything to do with past experiences where I've in my own brain, I had construed this story that said that time was something that was used to control me and I was pushing against that. I was fighting against that and I felt like this last minute stuff was, in my brain, a way to try and control me, which it absolutely was not from Sione's, you know, from where he was coming from, but my brain did that. And so it was just fascinating to me that his curiosity helped me figure out why I was feeling that frustration and what was really going on inside of me behind the scenes. So it really was a joint effort to help me figure out my stuff. Like, really my patterns that were hard for me. 

Sione 29:48 

Well, and as you were going through that process of kind of sorting through those thoughts and feelings, I was able to step back and say, "oh wait, this is definitely not a me thing." You know, I felt no defensiveness about it. It was just curiosity. And I'm like, "okay, I don't think this has much to do with me. And so I need to just continue to be curious," have that curiosity so that you can sort through what you need to sort through. 

Tanya Hale 30:16 

Yeah. And your questions helped me figure it out. And your insight, right, as you shared insight as well. Super, super helpful. 

Tanya Hale 30:23 

Okay, so let's go to the fourth rule here. Fourth rule is we call it circling back around. So do you want to describe what this one is? 

Sione 30:33 

Sure. So this is kind of the landing and airplane analogy, which also unfolds disclosure, I know nothing, but you know, when you're learning to fly an airplane, you do touch and goes, where you come in and you practice landing, and then you take off again and you practice it again and again. And so you circle back around and practice things until you get it right. And so this is the same sort of principle, which is if you do get something wrong, and you recognize it, you can say, "ooh, can I circle back around and try that again?" And then give the opportunity to repeat the exact same process, just in a more kind, loving way or in a more, in a less defensive way, or less critical way, or whatever of the first three rules we weren't following, we get the chance to try again with the exact same situation, just with a different mentality now and a different perspective. 

Tanya Hale 31:33 

Yeah. So a couple of things I love about this. One, for me to recognize that I have made a mistake that I need to apologize for, I've got to offer myself a lot of grace. I can't be beating myself up and saying, "oh my gosh, I should have known better." Well, maybe I should have, but guess what? I didn't. And I was moving off of patterns of behavior that are unconsciously being played out because of how our brains work. So giving myself the grace to be a human, to make those mistakes. And so then that gives me a chance then to recognize that, apologize for it, and say, "listen, I'm sorry that this is how I behaved. I recognize that this is what I did. It's not how I want to show up. Can I circle back around and try it again?" And then that gives Sione a chance to offer me some grace as well. And say in his head, "well, I know that she would never hurt me on purpose. I know that she's still figuring it out. I know that she's a human. She's going to make mistakes." And then he comes back with "absolutely, you can circle back around and do it again." 

Sione 32:45 

Yeah, and I'm really good at being critical of myself as well. And when I am critical of myself, circling back around gives me a chance to have a success, you know, a win. And so then I realized, "oh, that wasn't so hard to circle back around." In fact, it was kind of easy because you made it a safe place to circle back around into. And so then that gives me opportunity on other times when it might be even harder to circle back around to say, "I really need to circle back around on this. And although I know it's going to be scary and I know it's going to be a little bit difficult, I also know that it's a safe place to do it." And so that gives me the opportunity to have more grace for me so that I can improve rather than saying, "oh yeah, I totally botched that landing. I'm just going to stuff that one out of the way and not look at it again," which doesn't actually fix the problem. It just stuffs it away, but it's still there. 

Tanya Hale 33:39 

But then it becomes a back burner issue, right? 

Sione 33:42 

Right, right, for one of us, at least one of us. 

Tanya Hale 33:46 

But, and so I love this because then when I get a chance to circle back around, it gives me a chance to practice a new pattern of behavior so that that old pattern of behavior can ultimately be overridden, so that we're overridden by the new pattern. 

Sione 34:04 

Yeah, and it's kind of, it is a lot of that overriding stuff, where the newer, more recent experience is what I remember, not the first time around. But I go, "oh, she did circle back around. Wow, that was pretty good. She did a great job this time around." That's what's in my head now, not the previous pattern or the previous attempt that didn't go so well. 

Tanya Hale 34:27 

Yeah, I love that. And then it also gives my brain a chance to practice a new pattern as well because generally it's moving off old patterns. So I'll give you one more example of where this played out for us. So we were putting some blinds up in the kitchen after we moved here and was using the drill. Well, I put up tons of stuff. I know how to use drills. I know how to do this kind of stuff. And, and it was taking two of us, one person to hold the blind up and another to, to screw it up in to the ceiling or the wall piece, whatever that something... 

Sione 35:01 

I'm not a handyman. 

Tanya Hale 35:02 

So anyway, so see, I only have the drill and he was like, "well, here, why don't you do it?" And I was like, "well, okay, so I'll do it." So I started doing it. And as once I started doing it, he was like, "um, well, why don't you do it this way? And why don't you do it this way?" And for me, like that, that pulls up some, some frustrations from my past experiences. And I very, I think I was kind about it, but I said, "you know, maybe next time you can do it yourself and then you can do it the way youwant it done," something along those lines, right? 

Sione 35:40 

Right, because then I got really defensive like, "wait a minute, I was just trying to be helpful." And then when I got defensive, I thought, "oh wait, where's the truth in this? Yeah, I really wasn't trying to be helpful. I was trying to tell you exactly how I wanted it done. And that wasn't very nice." 

Tanya Hale 35:55 

Well, but it wasn't a bad situation for us. It's not like we were both just super annoyed and irritated, but there was a little bit. And when I said that to him, it didn't quite sit right with me, that that's what I had said, but I wasn't sure what was going on. Because there's a piece of me that thinks, "well, yeah, if you want to do it a certain way, just do it yourself," right? Don't have me do it and then criticize the way that I'm doing it, which he wasn't being super critical. But okay, so then what? So then I gave it about 20 minutes after we finished it and my brain just kind of kept mulling it and mulling it. And finally I realized, "oh my gosh, this has nothing to do with Sione offering me suggestions on how I could do it. It has everything to do with a past experience where I have felt like I was being told what to do," and I didn't like that. And a lot of in person... 

Sione 36:52 

You still don't like that. 

Tanya Hale 36:53 

I still don't. I really don't. But when I realized that that was going on, I took an opportunity right then to just say, "oh, hey, you know what? I realized that I didn't handle that the way that I wanted to. And I said this and I, can I circle back around and can I do it again?" And in all of his graciousness, he was like, "absolutely, you can circle back around." And it gave me an opportunity to say, you know, to apologize for how I acted, but then also to practice it the way that I wanted to, which I don't remember specifically what I said, but it would have been something along the lines of, "oh, okay, thanks for your help." 

Sione 37:40 

Or "thank you for the suggestion, I still like doing it this way," you know, or whatever. You don't have to change. You just have to acknowledge that somebody else might have a different way of doing it, understand that, and then you feel understood. 

Tanya Hale 37:55 

Yeah. So anyway, so those are our four rules. 

Sione 37:59 

Yeah, I think one of the beauties of these four rules is it really helps avoid those four horsemen that Gottman always talks about, the criticism and contempt and things, because it allows you to treat the other person with respect, gives you that safe space to circle back around again, and know that the other person cares more about the relationship than they do about whatever the circumstances that's going on, more about us than is the dryer lint cleaned out or dishwasher loaded correctly or am I holding this piece right or using the drill correctly or whatever is the circumstance that's causing the the thoughts and feelings that are uncomfortable. The relationship is more important than all of that. 

Tanya Hale 38:49 

Yeah, I love that and that is something that in our relationship I appreciate a lot. And I love this space of openness and honesty that I didn't have before. It's a completely different experience being married to you than my previous marriage experience. 

Sione 39:13 

Good, I hope I'm better than I was in my previous marriage because I would not have wanted to be married to me either. 

Tanya Hale 39:21 

So anyway, hope that's helpful. So really quick just to review those rules. Number one: no back burner issues. And there is a podcast entitled that if you want to go back in, it's like I don't know May or June or something on that. Number two: own your own. Using the the sentence frame that "when (this circumstance happens), I feel (name the feeling), because I'm thinking (what is your thought behind it,) right? 

Sione 39:51 

And it's also important that circumstances something that can be proven in a court of law, not "When you're being a jerk, I feel..." 

Tanya Hale 40:00 

Yeah, just the facts. 

Sione 40:01 

So "when you say X, I feel..." I sometimes get circumstance and my thinking about that circumstance confused. I jump right into the thought line instead of really taking a step back and looking at circumstance. 

Tanya Hale 40:20 

Yeah, you are absolutely not alone. I think that that's one of the hardest things for people to really separate out is the circumstance in the thought because our thoughts seem so true. They seem so factual to us. And they're just not, so that's rule number two.Rule number three: move into curiosity and don't get defensive. 

Sione 40:42 

Well, can you stop that? Or... 

Tanya Hale 40:45 

Yeah, maybe you can't. 

Sione 40:47 

But when you feel defensive, rather than acting on the defensive feeling, go back and say, "well, what thought is making me feel defensive?" Because for me, at least, the thought is, "ooh, there's some truth there that my primitive brain does not want to look at right now. And so I'm feeling defensive because I don't want to have to deal with myself." I don't have to deal with me. 

Tanya Hale 41:11 

Yeah. 

Sione 41:12 

It's easier to throw all my blame and stuff onto that event than it is to take a look and say, well, maybe I am wrong in this. 

Tanya Hale 41:20 

Yeah. So. Strive to move into curiosity. And when you feel the defensiveness come up, slow down, recognize that as a sign that there's some truth there, then look for that truth. And then rule number four: circle back around. Take that opportunity to apologize and to offer grace for yourself and the other person and to repractice the behaviors that we really want to implement into our lives. 

Sione 41:53 

I think in order to show yourself grace, you can practice it with other people as well. Just that whole thought of grace is it can't be applied partially to some people and then not to other people. The principle of grace needs to go to everybody, including yourself, in order for it to be really practiced. So if you come back and say, "can I circle back around?" I want to show up in a mode of grace and say, "of course, let's try that again." And in that grace, also say to myself, "okay, where was my responsibility? What's my own my own?" And then give myself enough grace to say, "and I'm human also. So can I circle back around also and try my response to your initial attempt at landing again?" But if I don't give myself that grace, then I'm gonna not want to approach that in the future because I'm not making it safe for me to be human. That's another podcast for another day. 

Tanya Hale 43:06 

Right. So many good podcasts. Alright, so now you see why I love being married to this person, right? He gets it and he wants to create the same kind of intimate partnership that I want to create and he's willing to work through these steps with me and I appreciate it. Hopefully those help and this is the thing, even if your spouse is not on board with this kind of stuff, you can still implement so much of this on your own. You can still choose not to have back burner issues. You can still choose to own your own. You can choose to move into curiosity and really strive to not feel defensive, right? You can practice circling back around even if your spouse is not on board. Because when you change the dance steps, they have to adjust. They can't keep doing the waltz if you're now doing the jitterbug. It's just not going to work. And so change the dance steps if you need to. Start showing up more the kind of person that you want to be. 

Tanya Hale 44:10 

We were blessed that we were able to start this at the beginning of our relationship. And so this is our relationship. But even if you're getting to start at 25 years into a relationship, better now than never. I just think that this has created for us a level of intimacy and a level of respect and kindness that just blows my mind. 

Sione 44:37 

So do you find it easy to do this? 

Tanya Hale 44:41 

With you? Yeah. Yeah, I find it easy because this is how our relationship works. It's how it's worked from the beginning. What about you? 

Sione 44:52 

I think it's sometimes uncomfortable to acknowledge the parts of myself that I'm not happy about and how they show up in the relationship and you point them out and I say "yeah, I really never liked that part about myself either" and so I think sometimes it's difficult to truly own my own and truly like get curious instead of defensive. I think that when that happens I know there's some pain coming because I know there's some way that I'm behaving or some pattern of behavior that I've had in the past that is not working in our relationship and probably didn't really work in a past relationship either. And so acknowledging "oh boy yet another reason or yet another thing that makes me human and that I need to to be better at." But it doesn't make it easy just makes it important to look at and important to offer myself grace but sometimes really hard I think to acknowledge where my fault is in that. Maybe I'm the only one but... 

Tanya Hale 45:55 

Yeah, yeah, it's never hard for me to see my faults. 

Sione 46:00 

What faults? 

Tanya Hale 46:01 

Right? There we go. No, I think, you know, I think it is hard but but also it's just this it's such a safe space for us with these rules, it's created such a safe space that when I see my flaws come up, putting them out on the table and letting you look at them with me just feels so safe and so natural for me at this point. 

Sione 46:28 

Well, I think also there's a sense of accomplishment when, you know, you're trying something. It's really hard in your life not doing it well and then to finally, you know, you circle back around again and you finally get it and you're like "oh that was smooth that was good. I like how that felt. I like how I showed up that in that circumstance. I like how all that worked out," and there's just a sense of accomplishment. At least that I feel,. like okay I learned something I figured something out that I didn't know before and I've learned a new skill. That's a really cool skill to have. I feel this sense of accomplishment, you know, as I circle back around and then finally get it right. So even though there's that pain of acknowledging where I came from there's also that reward at the end of saying "and now look. I figured it out." So that's the carrot at the end of the stick of acknowledging my own weaknesses. 

Tanya Hale 47:25 

Well and part of that figuring out results in a more intimate relationship for us. 

Sione 47:31 

Right. 

Tanya Hale 47:32 

Which is... 

Sione 47:32 

Okay two carrots at the end of the stick. 

Tanya Hale 47:35 

Two carrots. One orange and one golden. Right. Okay. My friends, that's going to do it. I hope you enjoyed meeting Sione. Pleasure to have you here, sweetheart. 

Sione 47:45 

Oh, it's good to be here. 

Tanya Hale 47:46 

Alright. That's going to do it for us today. Again, if you are interested in the Masterminds, go to my website, tanyahale.com. You can check those out and see if that's going to work for you. Also, that's where you can go to sign up for a free consult. If you want to talk with me about coaching and see if it would be a good option for you I would love to chat with you about it. Thank you for those of you who have written a review and... 

Sione 48:10 

I wrote a review. 

Tanya Hale 48:12 

He did write a review right after we started dating. Alright. Awesome, my friends. Thanks for being here. I know we went a little bit long today, but thanks for sticking with us. I think we got you some good content today. So have an awesome, awesome week and I'll see you next time. Bye. 

Tanya Hale 48:29 

Thank you so much for joining me today. If you would love to receive some weekend motivation, be sure to sign up for my free "weekend win" Friday email: a short and quick message to help you have a better weekend and position yourself for a more productive week. Go to tanyahale.com to sign up and learn more about life coaching and how it can help you get to your best self ever. See ya.