00:00 

Hey there, welcome to Intentional Living with Tanya Hale. This is episode number 222, "When You Are Considering Divorce." Welcome to your place for finding greater happiness through intentional growth ,because we don't just fall into the life of our dream...we choose to create it. This is Tanya Hale and I'm your host for Intentional Living. 

00:20 

Well, hey there, welcome to the podcast today. Super glad to have you back with me or here for the first time if this is your first time. This is Tanya. I love this podcast. So honored to be a part of your life as we work together to create these lives that are just better than we ever could imagine. For those of you who have left me reviews lately, thank you so much. What that does is it helps other people who don't have any contact with me prior (or with you), it helps them to find the podcast easier. The more reviews it gets, the higher it bumps up. So I appreciate you sharing your reviews and your positive kind words. That just feels nice and I appreciate it. And we're going to talk today about when you are considering divorce. Now you may be like, "I'm not considering divorce. I'm in a really really great place." But I still believe there's going to be some good content in here for you to look at and to listen to. 

01:27 

I have a really great analogy I've been using with my clients lately that I love and I think it absolutely applies to any marriage situation. But also, I bet you anything that there are people in your life who are currently considering divorce and this may be some really great content that you can listen to to understand their situation better. And also, you may want to think about sharing this podcast with other people as well. So I just realized that the last podcast I did was also about divorce. It was about handling your friend's divorce. And I guess the reason that this has been so on my mind lately is this summer I have picked up quite a few clients actually who are in the process of deciding whether to get divorced, in the process of divorce, or in the aftermath of divorce and trying to get their lives back together and get where emotionally where they want to be. And so this has just been such a huge part of the coaching I've been doing, where my thinking is going, "how do I help them?" And I've made some insights that, for me, are just have been amazing and I'm so grateful for the insight that I've gained. I feel like it's helped me to understand not only my own situation better but really to be able to be in a place as a coach to help my clients better. And so this is some of the information that I'm gonna share with you today. Again, I think you'll find it helpful whether you are considering a divorce or not. So stick around, it's worth 20 minutes of your time, I think so. Here we go. 

02:53 

I'm gonna start off by telling you that I think that one of the most difficult, probably the most difficult time in my life was when I was considering divorce. The years leading up to this point were tough, but I didn't ever consider divorce as an option. I just figured that we got married and I was in it for the long haul, and that was it, rain or shine, easy or hard, I was all in. And I didn't even think beyond that for the first 20 years of my 24 year marriage. That was all that I thought was, well, here I am, I figure it out, and we figure it out, and just did not even consider anything else. 

03:47 

And after I started seeing a counselor at about 20 years, because I was just at a point where I'm like, "I just don't even know, I don't even know where to go, don't know what to do, don't know what to think," I was completely stymied. And after I started seeing a counselor, I began to see more clearly the reality of my situation. And I also began to see that divorce needed to be an option that was on the table. That for me, by keeping it off the table, was providing an environment that continued to grow in resentment and unhealthy thoughts and behaviors. And things were not getting fixed because divorce was not on the table. My own thinking, you may totally disagree with that, and guess what, that's totally fine. We all get to think what we want, but I think that for me, not having divorce on the table kept me putting, and him, probably putting up with things that really needed to be addressed, and yet we didn't address them. 

04:49 

So, choosing to put divorce on the table though, I will tell you, was a terrifying thing for me. When the counselor gave me that as an option and just said, you know, "I'm thinking that things aren't gonna get better here," it was hard. I had a lot of thoughts about how divorce was giving up, and that wasn't who I was. I had a lot of thoughts that there must be something  wrong with me, that I was unlovable and that I was incapable of loving. And those were tough thoughts to wrap my head around. Very difficult. And I was always a fixer. You know, who was I if I couldn't fix my own marriage? I wondered what people would think about me and how they would judge me. Again, I'll tell you what, that was because I judged a lot of other people when they got divorced. And so of course my brain was gonna go to a place where I thought, "oh, how are other people gonna judge me?" I thought that being labeled as someone who was divorced meant that I wasn't strong enough, that I was weak and I was a quitter, that at some level I was unworthy of being loved. So I had a lot of thoughts to work through just to decide to put divorce on the table. 

06:09 

And then telling my husband at the time that divorce was a viable option that I was considering was incredibly scary as well. And that came with a whole new set of struggles when I received pushback in many ways, and I'm not gonna get into that, but holding my ground in a marriage where I was used to giving up ground in order to keep the peace here was difficult. Go back and listen to "Being a Peacemaker" if you haven't and to talk about the difference between being a peacemaker and a peacekeeper. That's a great one and that was only, I don't know, maybe about 10 or 12 episodes ago, maybe more, I don't know, go back and check that one out. 

06:51 

But for me, setting clear boundaries around what I felt was okay and what was not okay was incredibly challenging since I had not been good at establishing boundaries ever in my marriage. And then after working through so much of that, I also had the ethical and the moral, the religious views to work through. What about my children? Was it fair to them to separate our family, to take away the stability of a two-parent home, to make them have decisions to make for the rest of their lives around where to spend the holidays? But was it also fair to be raising them in an emotionally dysfunctional home where that had become their normal viewpoint for how a marriage and family should function? Was it fair for them to see their father and me not being loving and kind to one another, not treating each other with respect and to see that as their only model for how married couples interacted? And then what about spiritually, in my marriage covenants? When I got married, I promised both my husband and God that I was all in, that I would figure things out. 

08:05 

So working through all of these thoughts was such a challenge and took me a lot of time. And then even after working through all of that and kind of coming to peace with that, how was I to know that I was really making the "right" decision? I mean, it's a heavy-laden decision to make. I mean, all that stuff we've got to go through. So let's talk then about when you're considering divorce. I did, I will tell you, some things really well when I was going through all of that. And there are a lot of things that I didn't do so well. And in the years since, over 10 years now, since I decided to put divorce on the table, and seven years since my divorce, I've learned some amazing things about this divorce decision that I'd like to share with you. And, you know, right now, especially, a lot of my coaching business is working with clients who are considering divorce. And I've learned some amazing things working with them and applying the coaching concepts and the thought model during our sessions. And I want to share with you today some of the biggest things to consider when someone is thinking about getting divorced and how to make the best decision for you. Notice I didn't say the "right" decision. I don't know that there generally is...but the best decision for you. I, personally, I'm never in a place with my clients to advise them on whether or not they should or shouldn't get divorced. What I do with my coaching is to help them see the situation with so much clarity that they can make what I call a "clean decision" so that they can show up the way that they really want to show up, collect the necessary data so that they can make this clean decision. 

09:58 

So the trick for most of my clients is figuring out how to make such a clean and strong decision that they can move forward. Either staying in the marriage because they realize that we can work on this and we can get to a better place, or leaving, and to feel really good about their reasons for either staying or going. We absolutely don't want to choose either to stay or to go and then continually be second guessing and looking over our shoulder wondering if we made a good choice or not. This is what I help my clients do: to be really clear about their reasons, to be really, to collect the best data possible. And then go from there. 

10:45 

First of all, I will say that I don't think there's a right or wrong decision in most cases. I think God has given us our agency to choose, and with that agency we get to make the best decision that we feel will benefit us. But that also does not mean that we just make a willy-nilly decision. I think that my decision to get divorced was the biggest decision in my life, and I think  many, if not all of my clients, feel the same way. It's huge. I haven't spoken with anyone for whom this decision isn't fraught with heartache and pain and confusion and hesitation. It's a big decision, and I don't know anybody who has taken it lightly. I'm sure that there are people in the world, but I have not worked with any in the work that I've done. And among my circle 

of people that I interact with, nobody that I know has taken this decision lightly. So first, I absolutely believe this is a decision that is best made with a lot of prayer and with seeking to listen to God's promptings. I believe that God will direct us in all of these decisions, that He will help us show up the way that we desire, and that He will help us see what we need to do in order to make the best decision for us. And I don't believe the best decision is always to stay. I believe that sometimes the best decision is to go. 

12:13 

Okay, so let's chat about how we can create the best type of situation for us to collect the best data and for God to be able to direct us in the best way possible. So if you've listened to my podcast, "Love It Before You Leave It," it was one of the replays that I did back in June. Alright, so it was one that I did much earlier on and it was a replay that I did. So you'll remember that the premise is that it's important to make sure we aren't leaving something because we think things will be better there than here. When it comes to divorce, it can be tempting to think that if we just leave the situation, it will solve all of our problems, that life will be better after I'm divorced than it is when I'm in this challenging marriage situation. Now, first of all, in this context, I am not speaking about abusive situations where a person is at risk of harm. If that's the situation, absolutely we need to get to a safe place. I am referring to a tough marital situation where you can't seem to get along, where there doesn't seem to be any answers for resolving tough conflicts, where there is so much resentment and anger that we can't seem to have a civil conversation. Situations where there is such a struggle to connect in emotional and physical intimacy. Circumstances where the negative patterns of behavior are so ingrained that we can't even see that they exist, where we are so blinded by our bias that we can't see anything from a different perspective. 

13:46 

I've known people who have left these types of circumstances only to end up in another marriage relationship that plays out in similar ways. And why is that? If the first one was so tough, why do we end up in a similar kind of situation? Okay, I think it's because if we're just changing the circumstance, then we're not changing the brain that helped to create the circumstance. Okay? So what we create in one circumstance, the same brain is going to create the same thing. And I know at first we're like, "no that's not true, because I'm never gonna do that again." And then we do, right? Because we have the same brain. So I've used this analogy before but I'm going to share it again. Let's say that every morning when you're driving your car to work, your car overheats. And so you finally decide that you've got to do something about it, so one morning you decide to take a different way to work. You drive on a different road. And surprise! Your car overheats! How can that be? You drove a different way! How could the car still be overheating? Now it seems pretty obvious to us that of course the car was going to overheat because the problem is with the car, not the road. So changing roads doesn't change the problem. 

15:10 

So often people will want to leave a marriage because they think that they can just get into another marriage and everything will be different. And because we're people and not cars, it will be different. I mean you've got a different person, you've got different stuff going on, and there's the novelty of a new situation. And all of that is really great for a few months, maybe. And then the same types of problems start to surface again. Because the problem wasn't the marriage as much as it was the patterns of behavior that were happening in the marriage. And these patterns of getting defensive, of blaming, of shutting down, they eventually start to show up again when we have similar triggers to our previous marriage. A similar circumstance arises and our primitive brain is like, "oh girl, I got you. I know how to be passive aggressive here." And our primitive brain just does stuff and unless we are totally onto it with our prefrontal cortex, these same patterns of being passive aggressive, of being manipulative, of being defensive and blaming and shutting down, they're just going to surface and come out when we're not even paying attention. 

16:26 

So one of the best things that I believe we can do is to confront these patterns of behavior now, when we're considering a divorce. Let's get these patterns out into the open. Let's take a look at them. Let's start changing these patterns of behavior now and see what's going to happen in our marriage when we clean them up. So let's clean up our stuff now while we're in the situation for two reasons. One, because if we're ever going to have a healthy relationship, all these patterns have to be cleaned up at some point. Cleaning it up now is as good of a time as any because if we don't do it in this relationship, we're going to have to do it in the next. And two, because cleaning it up now provides us with so much more clarity around what's  really going on, and if there's a chance of healing and repairing our current relationship, this is how we do it. And I think that's usually our...I would love for that to be our first option. Let's try and clean up and heal this relationship first, if it's possible. And if we decide that there is not a chance of healing our relationship, then this process makes it really clear for us that there is not, that it's not going to be fixable. 

17:51 

Okay, so number one: cleaning it up now, it just makes sense. If we have unhealthy patterns of behavior that our primitive brain just puts in place, like that, then they will still be there, even if I get out of this relationship. It's the car changing roads, right? The car is still going to have problems, even if it changes roads. And this relationship right now, here's the thing...It is providing me with the perfect opportunity to become aware of and confront these patterns of behavior. This is the exact space that I need to be in to learn how to manage myself differently, to learn how to really show up the way that I want to in a relationship. 

18:36 

Okay, so let's talk about number two, which is cleaning it up gives us more clarity, all right? Around what's really going on. Let me give you an example. If I'm a scientist working in a lab using petri dishes, it's really important...now, I'm gonna start off by saying I'm not a scientist. So if you are, try not to roll your eyes so far back that it hurts. Okay, so here we go. Okay, if I'm a scientist, it's really important that in order to collect viable, good data, I have to start with a clean petri dish. Okay, for those of you who may need a reminder of high school or college microbiology, a petri dish contains a neutral and sterile nutritional medium where we can grow different types of cells. So in my college microbiology class, we took a swab of different places in our lab. We took a swab of the desk, the chair, the door handle, we even went in and did the toilet seat, and we put each swab in a different Petri dish so we could see what and how many germs were growing in each of these areas. Super simplified, I know. So scientists, there you go. That's all I got for you. So the point is here, that if I want to collect clean data, the petri dish has to be new and unused. It has to be clean. Otherwise, I won't know what germs are actually growing on that door handle or that toilet seat because it was mixed with other germs from other places. 

20:11 

So in our relationships, when we show up in a circumstance blaming and accusing, being passive aggressive, being manipulative, the other person will most likely respond in a defensive way and, in essence, I'm handing them a contaminated petri dish. I'm seeing what they put in it and then the data is not clean, what grows from that is not clean. I can't really see what's going on. I can't clearly see the interactions. I can't see the other person clearly because I came in blaming and pointing fingers and being passive aggressive. It's so important that I learn to clean up my own communication, my own approach, my own thoughts, feelings, and behaviors so that when I approach my spouse, the petri dish is clean. Then when they respond, I'm getting clean data from them. I'm seeing what's really going on our natural tendency is to show up with all that stuff I talked about...the accusations, the blaming, the passive aggressive, the manipulation, the pointing fingers, and then we're totally shocked and appalled when they don't respond all loving and kind. Okay, come on, right? Like that's a total normal human thing to do. I don't want you to beat yourself up if you're seeing this in your own stuff. But we cannot collect clean data until we show up clean. We have to clean up our end of the relationship. 

21:50 

One reason I feel this is so Important is so that when you make the decision to either stay or go, you are very confident in your decision. You feel good about it. You are not constantly second guessing and looking over your shoulder. I want you to be able to make a decision and feel like you have done everything you can. And I will tell you upfront, this is a lot of work. There are so many patterns of behavior to become aware of and then work on changing them out for patterns that will be more productive. But doing the work now just may save you your marriage because you start showing up clean... it's easier for them to show up clean, right? Now they're not always going to, okay? But if it doesn't save your marriage, it will prepare you for a healthier relationship in the future and not just with a spouse or a partner but relationships with our children with our extended family, with our friends, when we start dating, all that kind of stuff. You need to be ready to see things that are painful, to really manage your mind around showing up the way you want and letting go of trying to control how they show up or how they feel. 

23:12 

So I have clients ask me "why do I need to be the one to go first? why do I need to be the one to change?" Well, because right now you're the one who is learning the tools. You're the one who has the ability to effect change, because you're learning the tools. And why not you? Divorce is absolutely not a decision to be made lightly and if a marriage can be saved, I think that's a beautiful thing. So let's give it our best shot. Let's walk away knowing that we've done our best. We do the work of learning how to show up the way we really want to. We do the work to show up clean and compassionate and loving. We do the work to learn to communicate clearly, without blaming or accusing or being passive aggressive or manipulative. And then we can see what comes from that. 

24:11 

Because when you change the dance steps of your marriage, your partner has some choices. One, they can either change their dance steps to match yours. For example, you show up honestly and with vulnerability. You show love and kindness. You communicate clearly. And there is the possibility that your partner will match you, and then you can start to communicate and understand one another. You can start implementing healthy tools to help the two of you heal and get back on the same page. Okay, or you might change the dance steps and they take a few steps back in astonishment because of how you've shown up, not really understanding what they're experiencing. But with this," they're not leaving. They're just observing. Is this all for real?" And they're unsure how to proceed, so they proceed with caution. They stand back. They watch. Do you continually start showing up this new way of being loving and kind and not blaming and accusing? And the more consistent you are with your dance steps, this person in the second scenario will watch. They'll start to learn and they'll start to implement the new steps as well and eventually they'll step back into to the dance with you, where again, you can start to come to an agreement and start figuring things out. Just because your partner stands back when you start implementing these tools, doesn't mean they're disengaging. It just means that they're like, "whoa, I'm not quite sure how to handle it when this is all changed." That's okay. Of course, they're gonna be like a little bit like, "oh, I don't know what to do." Or the third scenario. They may just separate out, turn around and walk off the dance floor. They may be completely unwilling to engage at this new level of vulnerability and honesty. 

26:09 

And here's the great thing. All three of these scenarios is collecting data. All three give us useful information. When we really learn to show up clean with that clean petri dish, to be the person we really want to be rather than this, weird, strangely psychotic person that we can become when we're in this considering divorce situation, then we can really see what's going on. Then we can see how the dynamics change when we start engaging with healthy patterns of behavior, when we start behaving from a place of love and compassion, when we stop judging and accusing and start accepting and taking responsibility. 

26:54 

So this is something I work on with so many of my clients in this circumstance. How to show up with a clean petri dish, how to stop blaming and accusing, and instead step into responsibility. How to show up the person you really want to be, regardless of how they're showing up, so that you can collect clean data to make your decision with. I believe that some marriages do need to be complete, but sometimes the best decision is to get divorced. But I also believe that when we make that decision, we want to be very confident that we have done all that we could do. I believe it's very important to not constantly be looking over your shoulder, wondering if you made the right decision, whether that decision is to stay or to go. Working from this premise of cleaning up your own stuff, of showing up the kind of person you really want to be, helps you to make your decision with confidence. It helps give you the data that you need. And then when we turn to God with that data, I think it's so much easier to see and to understand and to receive the guidance that God has for us here. 

28:14 

So this is the deal, if you need help with this, I've got you. This is what I do. I'm great at helping you see your own crap, helping you clean up your stuff, to help you stay in your lane and work on being in control of you and not trying to control your spouse. And I can promise you, 12 coaching sessions with me is cheaper than a divorce. And it is worth the work to get to a place where you can make a decision you feel really good and really confident about. It's worth the work to position yourself for a more emotionally healthy future regardless of what that future holds. Coaching is tough work. I'm not gonna say that you come work with me and it becomes easy. It's tough. It's tough. And it's hard to take a look at our own stuff but only in taking a look at our own stuff, only then, can we feel good about the decisions that we make. Only then can we collect clean data. It's a tough, tough decision when you're considering divorce. But let's make the best decision we can. Let's show up our best selves. Let's collect the clean data. And then let's get some help, because this is a tough thing. Okay? And I'm here. You can get on my website tanyahale.com and you can sign up for a free consult. And we can talk about your situation. We can talk about getting you the help that you need. To see things that you are not going to see. I promise you, you do not see everything. We just don't. Our brains are not. They're not wired that way. Okay, there we go, my friend. That's gonna do it. 

30:20 

This is part of growing up. Learning how to clean up our own stuff. And so you can see where this information, whether you are considering divorce or whether you're in a good situation, but you still want to make some adjustments in your marriage. This good information, right? Showing up clean, showing up ready and prepared to do your own stuff. So even if you're not considering divorce, but you want to clean up your relationship, again, coaching is a great, great option. Okay, if you have not left me a review, go ahead and do that. And let's chat next week. Thanks for being here, my friends. It's my honor to be with you on this journey. Have a great week. See you next time, bye. 

31:06 

Thank you so much for joining me today. If you would love to receive some weekend motivation, be sure to sign up for my free "weekend win" Friday email: a short and quick message to help you have a better weekend and position yourself for a more productive week. Go to tanyahale.com to sign up and learn more about life coaching and how it can help you get to your best self ever. See ya.